I have a Warmoth wood 60 Strat clone that I want to switch the bridge pickup out of. It currently has the Torres bluescaster wiring harness and Fralin Vintage Hots. I am planning on putting a Kinman 69b in the bridge position. Anyone have any experience with using one Kinman with two true single coils? Will this work? I hope so, I've got the Kinman on order.
http://groups.msn.com/rloiko/shoebo...hoto&PhotoID=10
Thanks in advance
Can't help you except to say that at one point Kinman recommended against this on his site, but I don't if that warning still applies with the MKII series.
Mostly, I just wanted you to know that I was the one who deleted your duplicate thread in case you wondered. Figured you just hit the the submit button twice. :)
Hi jpagey, of course when you mix a noiseless with no-noiseless the obvious issues arise. Like noise and phase. Dont be surprised if the noise of the non-noiseless singles begins to annoy you more than it did previously. Many folks become accustomed to having no noise and find returning to noisy pickups more distasteful than first imagined.
Position 2 may have a phase issue, meaning it may be out-of-phase if the electrical polarity is different for the two types of pickups. In that case the fastest easiest thing to do is reverse the connections of the singles. You might get a little more noise in some circumstances that way but maybe you 'notice the increase. Of course if you really really like the AVn-69b any phase or noise mismatch problems will disappear by replacing the singles with a pair of AVn-69 :)
Jack, I think jpagey stated the wrong model pickup in his other post, he said AVn-60b which is a Tele pickup. You deleted the right one which was wrong,,,if you know what I mean ahahahHa :)
Doh! Obvious issues? Phase and polarity who? Thanks for posting Chris, I figured if I slathered this all over the place I might catch you. I ordered the bridge pickup simply because I haven't found anything else I can stand. I LOVE Fralins for the #5 and #4 positions on my Strat. LOVE them. But I really like to mix the #1 and #2 positions with a bit 'o gain, and I'm hoping your 69b can handle it, while still sounding like a strat pickup.
I own a soldering iron and have sloppily installed a few pickups in my day but as far as "reversing connections" you lost me. And what does "out of phase" mean? Did I make an error when I assumed that your pickups could be mixed with standard single coils? Am I the only person who has attempted this??
Actually Chris, I chose that one to delete because it was titled "Lindy's AND Kinmans," which I thought should have been "Lindy's AND Chris's."
:hee
jpagey, dont want to deprive you of exercising your brain and doing a little research on my site :fc but here's an extract from my Glossary >Technical.
Out of Phase: When 2 pickups or coils are connected in such a way that the current flows are in opposite directions and tend to cancel one another they are said to be out of phase. Position 2 and 4 of a Strat switch is not out of phase, in fact quite the opposite…they are in-phase. Out of phase sounds consist of very little bass, dominate mids and highs with a characteristic 'nasal, honky' sound and have a much lower level. Also see In-phase.
Use the Google Search Engine function on my front page to discover other references to this topic. The FAQ page is also full of handy hints and knowledge. Have fun expanding your horizons.
Ya' gotta love mods with an eye for parallel construction. Want to enroll in my writing class?Originally Posted by Jack w/his radar
Well I know you're somewhere in Ohio... maybe I could commute. :)
Whoa...jpagey, dont want to deprive you of exercising your brain and doing a little research on my site :fc but here's an extract from my Glossary >Technical.
Out of Phase: When 2 pickups or coils are connected in such a way that the current flows are in opposite directions and tend to cancel one another they are said to be out of phase. Position 2 and 4 of a Strat switch is not out of phase, in fact quite the opposite…they are in-phase. Out of phase sounds consist of very little bass, dominate mids and highs with a characteristic 'nasal, honky' sound and have a much lower level. Also see In-phase.
Use the Google Search Engine function on my front page to discover other references to this topic. The FAQ page is also full of handy hints and knowledge. Have fun expanding your horizons.
OK...
I heard good things about your pickups so I'm trying them out. When I ask a question about installing them in my guitar, I actually am looking for a "green wire goes to this and this goes to that" kind of answer. And maybe a little explanation diagram. Maybe I took this the wrong way but maybe you could "exersize your brain" and just give me some guidance as far as installing your pickup in my guitar. Don't care for or need the sarcasm and technospeak. You currently have one of the most expensive pickups on the market. I just ordered one from you in Australia. There are local dealers right here in Denver that carry many different pickup types in stock. I made the decision to spend over $100 on a bridge position single coil. I also have to wait for the pickup to be shipped to me from Australia. I understand that you are proud of your product and website but to tell you the truth I really couldn't care less about "phase, out of phase, polarity" and such. Just want good tone. The best possible tone. And simple guidance on how to install your pickup in my guitar.
This is what you get when you cut out the dealers and decide to go direct to the customer. You no longer have to give these dealers a cut of your profits but you do have to field questions about your product yourself. If you are busy, I couldn't care less--hire someone else. To insult your customers for asking questions about your product is a sure way to lose referrals which is how you grow your business. If you want an example of this, go ahead and do a search for "Ed Roman".
Easy there jpagey. Chris DID answer your question the first time, but you didn't like the answer. I don't speak for Chris or anyone else, but when I read your post above, what I get is, "I want you to answer my question with a 'yes,' not give me reasons why it won't work."
I too tried to point you to Chris's site to do some reading to understand why you can't do what you're asking, but you just asked the same question again. And to answer your last question, I'd wager that nobody else who used the Kinman site to read up on his pickups has tried it and hoped for success.
If you don't "care" about these things then don't install the pickups yourself. If you don't know, or want to know, the basic principles of how pickups work, take it to someone who does. It'll save you money in the long run.
FWIW, if you have phase problems in pos. 2 (thin sound, reduced output) after installing the Kinman, simply reverse the leads on the middle pickup. Example: Normally, the white lead goes to switch, black to ground. Reverse these, black to switch, white to ground. You may have to do this with the neck pickup too.
If you have any other problems there are plenty of people here who are always happy to help out. Some may give you a "green wire goes here" answer, some won't.
You know what they say (and I'm paraphrasing) "Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime".:yay
You are incorrect as to what you "got". I simply want to know if Kinmans and sigle coils exist together peacefully. Is it that hard? A yes or no answer would be great. Tell me how to put 'em in. Simple. And to be honest, I still don't know. The first paragraph let me know that after using his pickups, I won't be able to stand anything else. That's fine. That will mean more money for Kinman.com & good for him.
The second paragraph I just re read and I still don't know what it means. Will my Fralins sound exactly the same as they do now? Does pos#2 being out of phase mean it will sound bad? What does "reversing the connections of the singles" mean? Will this alter the tone of my #3, #4, & #5 positions? Sounds like this reversing procedure will make them noisier. Is this what he means by not being able to stand them any more? Because I have to make them noisier in order to make the Kinman work correctly? Wouldn't that mean that Kinmans DO NOT mix with normal single coils?
I think that my question was a simple one, and I think my reply was sufficiently selp-depreciating. On the Kinman site, it is not mentioned (clearly anyway) whether or not the Kinmans are compatible with straight forward single coils. It is "recommended" that all three Kinmans be installed into the guitar. And, even if it does say so in the site, I obviously either didn't look hard enough or want to look hard enough to find the info. This shouldn't matter. I am the "customer". I am always right. My point in the last post was that even if I sound like I haven't fully "researched" the theories and electronic principles of pickup wiring, that doesn't mean that I don't deserve to have my questions answered in a clear, concise and polite manner. I don't think that trying to find out where to solder what to where before rather than after I receive my pickup is out of line.
You are right. Kind of got rubbed the wrong way, if you know what I mean.
Jpagey, the pickup will coexist with your Fralins, much the same way a humbucker can work with single coils. If after installing the Kinman per the instructions that come with it, if you notice that the bridge and middle pickup (when used together) sound thin and have reduced output, simply reverse the wire as I pointed out in post # 12. It is possible that when you reverse the leads on the middle pickup, your #4 position could be out of phase. Then simply reverse the wires on the neck pickup.
Oh and here, on the TFF, you're not a customer, you're a member of the forum, as is Kinman. It's not the Kinman customer service site. If you have a problem with customer service, contact Kinman directly. Here we're a bunch of people who love and play the guitar, and like to talk about guitar and share knowledge, experience, and on occasion, dumbass stories. I hope you stick around long enough to find out just how great a resource TFF is.
Jpagey, the pickup will coexist with your Fralins, much the same way a humbucker can work with single coils. If after installing the Kinman per the instructions that come with it, if you notice that the bridge and middle pickup (when used together) sound thin and have reduced output, simply reverse the wire as I pointed out in post # 12. It is possible that when you reverse the leads on the middle pickup, your #4 position could be out of phase. Then simply reverse the wires on the neck pickup.
Oh and here, on the TFF, you're not a customer, you're a member of the forum, as is Kinman. It's not the Kinman customer service site. If you have a problem with customer service, contact Kinman directly. Here we're a bunch of people who love and play the guitar, and like to talk about guitar and share knowledge, experience, and on occasion, dumbass stories. I hope you stick around long enough to find out just how great a resource TFF is.
Right on guys. Sorry to rant about an obviously well respected member of the gear community. Makes me feel better already that so many members here back each other up. I realize that this is not a Kinman customer service board and I shouldn't have treated it as such. However it seems as though Mr. Kinman scours these boards and his wife takes care of the orders and customer service. Unfortunately, after the order is placed my questions were not addressed, so I posted on a few boards to try and catch him. It seems to have worked. Sorry you folks had to hear my reaction when I feel that someone has pissed in my cornflakes.
Last edited by jpagey; 12-02-2004 at 05:36 PM. Reason: redundant
Cats and dogs living together........
No worries. :)
And if you need any help, just ask. There's a bunch of good people here.:yay
jpagey, WOW!!! You sure took the wrong impression of my post. I certainly didn’t intend any offence. The thing about exercising your brain and doing some research yourself was only said in a joking manner, I never insult anyone anywhere, let alone in a public forum. Indeed sorry you took it as an insult.
Without writing an epic about it all I do want to correct some misunderstandings you have. After 8 persistent years of building a quality US Dealers network (a mere 13 Dealers) I was forced to abandon the whole network thing because costs just overcame me, it was just not viable any longer. I was making a LOSS every time I sold to US Dealers. I had to stop or face bankruptcy. It had nothing to ‘cut them out of the loop’ or anything like that, hell some of those Dealers are good personal friends of mine (still are) who I wouldn’t want to harm in any way. The stark reality was I was left with just one way ahead, to go it alone. I thought I made that clear on *My Dealers >USA* pop-up. I have to make the best of a bad thing. My sales plummeted about 80% but at least the losses have stopped.
I spend most of every day at this computer replying to emails. Customer service is high priority around here, almost above all else. Even above development of new products, which are about 4 years behind schedule simply because I just cant find or even afford to pay anyone else who can do this job. People who ask questions never know what pressure their demands cause. Consider that one simple question or email can cost me an hours work, and that only about 5% of emails result in a sale. That means most of my day is a complete waste of time, but it is not possible to be selective about who I reply to so I reply to all.
For example here is an email I got 3 days ago from one of the 5%, it really says something about this industry. >>> “Hi Chris, I sent an email to “XXXX pickups” and yourselves about advice on pickups and in that time I have received several replys from you and ordered and received a set of your pickups and I am still waiting for “XXXX pickups” to send me an email !!!! Thanks Guys, Tim R” <<<
Yet despite my dedication to service and innovative products the big companies clean up with the same old stuff that’s been done to death. That all directly translates to me not having the time to teach individuals how to do wiring. Like fezz parka says “"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime".” To that extent I have spent considerable effort in providing comprehensive information on my website, for ALL players, not just my customers. In fact my website traffic is so heavy providing information to so many who are someone else’s customer I was forced to migrate to a lower cost Host, it was costing me nearly $200 a week in excess traffic. Either that or remove the information pages from my site. I choose to migrate and continue making the information available FREE to players regardless of whose customer they are.
I guess all this teaches me that no matter how hard you try you can’t please everyone all the time. But I hope I score at least one or two points for at least answering you, after all your original question was posted in a public forum not directed to me in particular. I was trying to help you given what little time I have.
Thanks to all the wonderful folks who frequent this board who pitched in to get jpagey happy.
japagey I visit this palce to chat and be helpful, when I get the time. After an absence of almost 18 months I recently found a little bit of time to again visit opccasionally. Your original question was not really that simple as you have since discovered with all the questions you subsequently raised. When I read you question I too had a mental rush of dervative questions and issues like you discovered. I just could not affort the time to discuss all that in depth and I thought it better to at least point you in the direction of knowledge rather than create an endless time consuming ping-pong message exchange, which happened anyway as it turns out. Thanks all.
Thanks for being here, Chris.
Like I said before, I'm sure I overreacted to your original post Chris and now I will take time to apologise to you. I understand that sometimes, especially on a message board, things can be taken the wrong way. I hope your business stays viable...as long as you stop insulting me (j/k).
It sounds like if I plug the new Kinman in, worst case scenario, I will lose position #2. You know, I really have no problem with that. Right now, I use #4 and #5 exclusively.
That was easy, eh?
I'm also sorry I compared you to Ed Roman.
It's OK jpagey, we all have to make allowances for mis-intreprutation of written words as distinct to spoken language when using the Internet.
Thanks, I love what I do and I'm not about to quit. Besides, what person in their right mind would offer me a job anyway? :lol :rofl
I believe you have an accurate understanding of position #2. In your case it won't be a problem because you don't use that one. If you ever get to the point where you want a complete set of Kinman's email me. If it's within reasonable time frame I will consider taking back the 69b and sending you a whole set prewired into a harness with my '100% NoSolder Install Kit'. It completely eliminates the need to solder when installing my pickups.
No doubt. :)
:bwa :rofl:lol:rl:hee
Several guitars in different colors
Things to make them fuzzy
Things to make them louder
orange picks
The NoSolder Kit is highly recommended to people with 2 thumbs when it comes to soldering! Even alike me could do it! :lol
michael
Oh Brother!!!
Thanx for bieng so patient Chris I am going to try your pups in my new strat
Just waiting for the cash to buy your new trads!
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained as stupidity"
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