Who is old enough to remember Clapton's tone when he was with Cream?

[pbradt]

There are two primary cover bands (copy bands? not my term) that use me around here, and both leaders are very anal about straying too far from what "the record is supposed to sound like".

Ok, so it's them. I understand now. Both those bandleaders are cheating their audience. You're also making enough money that you're doing the right thing. You're a lot more expensive than I am.

[quote]So, I learned how to "play well with others" in kindergarten, and so I do. Money? I get about $150/gig with these guys so maybe I'm a cheaper date than some of you other guys, maybe not.

One of the leaders is an ex-military musician (retired lifer no less) and so has this whole military head thing going on about what things are "supposed" to sound like. I choose my battles carefully these days. To me it's not that important or that big of a musical/artistic-values-being-compromised deal to have to play Margartiville so it sounds like Margaritiville. I can so I do, that's what I'm being paid for.

The other guy is very old and very old school and wants everything just so. If we show up at one of his gigs and there is someone there we don't know, we're supposed to act like we all know each other and have been friends a long time. He's very sensitive about that. We (all the sidemen) have a chuckle about it during the breaks, but we still march in step, play the gig, then take the money, call it a night and go home.

I see your point. But I still believe as long as your tone is good, whether it matches the record, they wouldn't even notice.

[NeoFauve]

"YOU'RE CHEATING THE FUCKING WORLD OF THE MUSIC THAT'S INSIDE YOU?????"- pbradt

Ya' know, Pete, if you delete the "FUCKING," that's almost, like, a hug. A cyber-hug
Very warm and fuzzy.:yay

[Old Tele man]

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[Algernon]

I remember years ago when I first started playing for these guys, I couldn't believe it. The ex-military guy in particular would tell me, right in the middle of a song sometimes, you need more chorus, or reverb, or this or that. I used to get my knickers in a bunch about it the first few times it happened, but then I realized that was just the way he was. He had had it pounded into his head for 30 years that guitars are supposed to sound a certain way. After all, that’s the way “they” did it in the military.

He seemed surprised that all guitar players did not intuitively understand that. He even wanted me to buy a Peavey amp because that’s the kind of amps guitar players in the military all used to use and produced the sound he was used to. Working for him actually helped me grow, to become more Buddha-like if you know what I mean. That’s what I meant in a previous post about choosing my battles much more carefully these days.

Some things are worth arguing over, fighting for a certain principle, while others are not. My perspective on that is very clear to me now. There aren't too many things more important to me than my grandchildren. They are the great levelers in my life now, and they do it with such simple, child-like ease. Kind of makes me jealous and yearn for some of my old youthful naivete once again.

I am much fussier about my own sound (translate as: tone and equipment) when I play “my” gigs as a leader than when it’s for someone else. Don’t get me wrong, I try and do as good a job as I can as a sideman but when I find myself in one of those controlled situations, especially when the leader is so particular and “hands on” with the sound, I let it pass. Most times now I just let him rant and then turn towards my amp and pretend to adjust a few knobs and then just keep playing they same way with the same sound. I think he expects to see me fool with the knobs more than he expects to hear a real difference in the sound, probably to gratify some sense of control he needs to exert, an authority thing picked up from the military I guess.

Life is too short to be wasting energy and emotion on the wrong things. By the way, I had to look up "pedantic condescension", I didn't know what it meant. It made me feel a little bit smarter to have been insulted like that, once I knew what it meant anyway. You overestimate my intellect my friend. I think life for a guitar player here in Tidewater Virginia is just really really different from life you guitar players in other parts of the country must be experiencing. My loss I'm sure.

You guys can hear all of my original tunes all the way through at this link:

click on the "Active Playlist" button

You can even click on the song titles themselves for more details about the tunes themselves, what inspired me, the key, tempo, etc.

[pbradt]

I remember years ago when I first started playing for these guys, I couldn't believe it. The ex-military guy in particular would tell me, right in the middle of a song sometimes, you need more chorus, or reverb, or this or that. I used to get my knickers in a bunch about it the first few times it happened, but then I realized that was just the way he was. He had had it pounded into his head for 30 years that guitars are supposed to sound a certain way. After all, that’s the way “they” did it in the military.

I have to admit, I'd tell the guy "You want to play the part, asshole? If not, shut the fuck up and I'll play it."

That's a battle I'd fight.

I don't tell singers how to sing (unless I'm producing their demo) and I expect a level of respect from a bandleader that clearly you don't. Maybe that's why I always end up being the bandleader. Then I can practice what I preach.

As for pedantic condescension, if you're content to be told what to do and when do do it, more power to you. I still think you cheat not only the world but yourself, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

But the bands you mention are part of the problem with music and most musicians these days.

[fezz parka]

Who is old enough to remember Rudy Vallee's switch from megaphone to microphone??? Well??? :hee

Well? :rofl

[NeoFauve]

Well? :rofl

Thomas Edison's tone on "Mary Had A Little Lamb" was to die for.
That's one take, LIVE, straight to cylinder, baby! :ahem

[Kap'n]

Well? :rofl

Could I have seen footage of that? Hard to say.

[Kap'n]

Thomas Edison's tone on "Mary Had A Little Lamb" was to die for.
That's one take, LIVE, straight to cylinder, baby! :ahem

Stevie could only wish to have such tone.:rolleyes:

[fezz parka]

[mgade]

Thought provoking - which is good.

I just borrowed a slew of CD's off the public library. I like to check out an artist several times, even though my first attempt in his/her direction failed, and this time I'd like to try out Gary Moore again. His Blues for Greeny sort of appealed to me. The first few bars went down great. "A helluva tone" I said to myself, while listening and reading the notes. Something about a great old Gibby from '59. Well .. It didn't last through the first track. Tone and tasty guitars aside: That guy just don't float my boat! It gets boring! (To me, that is. My loss I am sure!)

Next CD was Rufus Thomas: Blues Thang. I only meant to give it a quick shot, but enden up listening to 3/4 of it. A helluva CD!

What is puzzling me, is that when I listen to what I do my self, I can hear some wannabe-Gary Moore-tones and some Rufus too. So why do I reject Gary?

Next point is on tone on original records. While there seems to be concensus about the artsy approach (pbradt), and while I generally agree, I believe somebody has nailed some songs soooo fabulously, that the original sound become unavoidable. Think Jimi Hendrix. Sorry, but I have yet to hear a good redition of any Hendrix song on the original premisses (better than the original, that is). NOBODY can do it. Not Stevie Ray, not Buddy Guy, nobody. IMHO. But I think Bonnie Rait (or some other female US country singer) did a GREAT take on "Waterfall" - totally un-Hendrix-like, but she somehow nailed it nonetheless.

In my head all this boils down to: Tone is great. Your personal tone is a personal victory and thus greater. Some songs must be reproduced pretty accurate tonevise - some acts can't be reproduced at all, so you have to substitute the original tone (and arangement and..) with new original content.

Sorry. Couldn't resist :-)

[TremoloKing]

Re: Who is old enough to remember Clapton's tone when he was with Cream?

I am. Fresh Cream was a mind "F"ing album for me. Then I got to see them in a small club in Boston in Sept '67. Clapton set a new and very high standard for electric guitar playing and sound. The guitar break in "I Feel Free" remains one of the premier solos ever.

I just bought the BBC sessions. It's really good to hear alternate takes of tunes spanning Fresh Cream to Wheels of Fire. I recommend it for Cream fans.