Hot Rod Deluxe - turn on.. silence. Turn off/on a couple more times, then it's fine.

[tonebrulee]

Hey folks - new member to the forum here and a new owner of a used HRDx (Texas Red, from a few years ago). Owned it for just a couple of weeks. The amp sounds fantastic, but it developed a problem pretty quickly where I turn it on (i.e. set it on Standby, turn Power on, let it warm up for a minute, then flip Standby to ON) and no sound at all - no hiss.. nothing. The tubes are glowing and everything seems fine, but silence. Waiting for another few minutes leaving it on and it just remains silent. But then if I go through the power up sequence a couple more times, it eventually comes to life and works fine thereafter. And if I turn it off at that point, and then power it back up it's always fine too. The problem only ever happens after the amp has been cold. Sound like anything familiar?

[phantomman]

Possibly a cold solder joint within the high-voltage circuit or a bad standby switch.

Likely the reason why the previous owner dumped it.

If the amp is less than five years old and you can wrangle the sales receipt from the original purchaser, an authorized Fender service center will repair it for free under the terms of the transferrable warranty.

[tonebrulee]

Possibly a cold solder joint within the high-voltage circuit or a bad standby switch.

If the amp is less than five years old an authorized Fender service center will repair it for free under the terms of the transferrable warranty.

Hey, thanks @phantomman. Unfortunately I think the amp is a bit more than 5 years old and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be the standby switch b/c I can see the glow inside the power tubes jump when I flip standby off. Cold solder joint seem like a good thought... maybe a joint for one of the 6L6 sockets. I'm going to be opening it up fairly soon to do some of the well known mods (twin mod, replace power resistors, reverb mod) so I can look for any bad joints then. Thanks!

[Don]

The tube heaters will glow orange whether the standby switch is on or off.

[phantomman]

The tube heaters will glow orange whether the standby switch is on or off.

Correct.

The standby switch interrupts only the B+ voltage applied to the 6L6's plates. The 6.3 VAC to the heaters remains active.

[tonebrulee]

The tube heaters will glow orange whether the standby switch is on or off.

Right, but I wasn't referring to the orange glow of the heaters - if you watch a power tube in the dark when you hit it with B+, you'll see the bottle fill with a blue glow - it's pretty cool looking and quite pronounced.. the standby switch it definitely OK in this instance.

[Don]

Right, but I wasn't referring to the orange glow of the heaters - if you watch a power tube in the dark when you hit it with B+, you'll see the bottle fill with a blue glow - it's pretty cool looking and quite pronounced.. the standby switch it definitely OK in this instance.

I assumed you meant the heaters. The problem might not be in the switch but could be more towards the preamp side of the power supply.

I know that blue glow well- here's a Mesa amp that I used to own-

[tonebrulee]

I assumed you meant the heaters. The problem might not be in the switch but could be more towards the preamp side of the power supply.

Thanks @Don! Can you say a bit more what you're thinking re: preamp side of power supply? I thought @phantomman's notion re: cold solder joint in power section had some promise b/c I'm hearing complete silence when the issue is happening - i.e. nothing out of the power tubes, which I'm thinking would at least hiss even if there's nothing going into them from the preamp. Thoughts?

[FrankJohnson]

I have a HRDx I have had since I started on this forum. In fact, it was the reason I ended up here I think.

It has had a few issues with solder points, bad cheap resistors, a cap went I recall, and of course tubes.

If you open it up and look for obvious solder issues, that is a start. A common one I found, which doesn't sound like the issue you encountered is the points where the tube sockets are soldered to the PB board. If you lightly wiggle each tune and look at the solder points, be sure none are moving. I encountered that multiple times.

Check ribbon wire connections, they have on occasion needed to be re-seated in a friends amp - not mine though.

check the connections on the switches - I can't recall if you can see them, or if they are buried. I don't believe you can get inside of these switches, if I recall correctly. sort of like the input jacks - box type.

I really like my HRDx, it sounds really good, and have had a few heavy hitters play through it and had good results. Minor upgrades, as work was done, but not really mods. except the speaker...... it is home for a Reverend Alltone 1250. That speaker works really well in this amp.

that is my $ 0.02

I dont' know if your answer is in here - but there is some good helpful info at this link -
http://hotroddiy.com/

[tonebrulee]

I have a HRDx I have had since I started on this forum. In fact, it was the reason I ended up here I think.

Thanks a million @FrankJohnson! Super helpful info. Yeah, I love the way the HRDx sounds - mine has a Celestion Vintage 30 and it sounds just great. I've been seeing quite a bit of HRDx bashing in various forums, but personally I feels it's pretty much the ideal distillation of 60+ years of Leo's genius re: building fantastic amps products: great tone, compact, and affordable. It's the most popular tube amp of all time for very good reason. All that said though, I do feel like Fender dropped the ball on a number of details with the HRDx, both in terms of the controls and the uncommonly large number of QA/reliability issues. All these things are fixable after the fact, but Fender should really have addressed them all by this point in the design's history, ya know? I can work on amps, so it's not a big deal to swap some resistors and tweak a few connections, but that's not most people and Fender should really update the design so everyone can enjoy the HRDx for all it's great qualities PLUS reliability. Cheers!

And oh yeah.. I had read through most of the Justin Holton stuff.. priceless!

[FrankJohnson]

Well - these are pretty disposable compared to the heavy hitters. When they work right they can be good amps, but truth be told they get bashed a lot because of serious reliability issues.

I say that to say this -

I have worked with a number of touring acts who use these, HRDv, and Blues Jrs quite a bit. I think the trade off is that if they need to pick another up on the road, it isn't the cost of a ....... fill in the blank with your favorite vintage or high end piece, and also the thought of theft, I am sure.

I think if you get one that hangs on well, sounds good, and doesn't break the bank, its done its job. THAT, in my opinion is part of the genius of Leo -

[tonebrulee]

I have worked with a number of touring acts who use these, HRDv, and Blues Jrs quite a bit. I think the trade off is that if they need to pick another up on the road, it isn't the cost of a ....... fill in the blank with your favorite vintage or high end piece

I guess that's true.. low initial cost and low replacement cost are a nice way to keep the up-front cost down. Though if I were a gigging touring musician instead of the middle-aged noodler I am, I think I'd probably look into spending 2x the price of a HRDx up front and have gear that can really take a beating. There are a lot of great road-worthy rigs you could put together spending $1500 for used equipment, ya know?

[FrankJohnson]

I guess that's true.. low initial cost and low replacement cost are a nice way to keep the up-front cost down. Though if I were a gigging touring musician instead of the middle-aged noodler I am, I think I'd probably look into spending 2x the price of a HRDx up front and have gear that can really take a beating. There are a lot of great road-worthy rigs you could put together spending $1500 for used equipment, ya know?

very true - but also, they don't sound bad at all -

[tonebrulee]

very true - but also, they don't sound bad at all

Oh, absolutely - I think the HRDx clean channel sounds fantastic, both alone and with pedals. I haven't played much yet with the drive channel, but I might guess if you were especially into amp tube distortion, that's where pricier amps from makers like Dr. Z or Mesa might well be worth the investment (that, and their bullet-proof construction).

[tonebrulee]

The problem might not be in the switch but could be more towards the preamp side of the power supply.

Hi @Don - still really interested to get your thoughts re: "preamp side of power supply" if you see this. Thanks.

[tonebrulee]

Little more info: just thought to check whether sound comes through when I plug into the "Power Amp In" jack, and sure enough it does. So it's someplace before the power tube section.

[FrankJohnson]

Little more info: just thought to check whether sound comes through when I plug into the "Power Amp In" jack, and sure enough it does. So it's someplace before the power tube section.

you know - I almost wonder......
12ax7 in V1 or V2 ?

[Don]

you know - I almost wonder......
12ax7 in V1 or V2 ?

I would definitely look at the preamp tubes. Clean their sockets as well. to clean preamp tube sockets, I spray a little Deoxit on the pins of a tube and put it in and out of the socket a few times. You can re-tension the socket as well but you should make sure the filter caps are drained before doing that.

[NTBluesGuitar]

I know just the remedy for HRDs...

...so much potential, such lame PCBs.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Seriously, R78 and R79 are the source of the majority of problems with this amp.

[phantomman]

I know just the remedy for HRDs...

Me too!

[Offshore Angler]

The HRD is a heated subject.

Some people love them, others consider them the BIC lighters of amps - with no middle ground.

I will respectfully reserve my opinion of where they fall in the hierarchy of amps.

[tonebrulee]

Me too! (BOMBS AWAY!)

Hardy-har-har @phantomman! ;-)

Some people love them, others consider them the BIC lighters of amps

Hi @Offshore - well... I wouldn't disagree with the BIC analogy in terms of the reliability issues, but tone-wise this amp sounds fantastic to me. And the (dead simple) Twin Mod will give it a proper Fender tone stack which IMO will put it right in among the rest of Fender's great sounding single-12 combo's.

you know - I almost wonder... 12ax7 in V1 or V2 ?

Bingo Frank - you're the man! It was just a bad V1 socket. Pretty loose grip on the pins, so that'll get re-tensioned or replaced when I open it up for the other mods. Thanks guys!


Open call: does anybody have improved part numbers (e.g. Mouser) for the various weak HRDx components? e.g. part number for replacement sockets re: ^^^^^^^ or for the plastic enclosed Switchcraft jack people like to use for the input jacks? Thanks!

[phantomman]

Hi @Offshore - well... I wouldn't disagree with the BIC analogy in terms of the reliability issues, but tone-wise this amp sounds fantastic to me.

For the record, I never had an issue with the tone of this amp's normal (ie: clean) channel. Mine sounded prototypically Fender in that regard. But the piss-poor signal ratio of the "fizz" and "more fizz" modes rendered the amp worthless for my purposes. And the absolute deal-breaker was the design's propensity to self-destruct at the most inopportune of moments. Anyone who's ever taken one of these things onstage for a professional gig only to have it go tits-up at the moment of truth knows of which I speak.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Seriously, R78 and R79 are the source of the majority of problems with this amp.

And I repeat, R78 and R79 are notorious for a plethora of problems with this amp. This area drives all the opamps in the circuit which affects everything from pre-PI insertion to reverb to drive/more drive and channel switching.

You may check solder joints on the tube to PCB connections as well.

If you want to check input jacks, plug into the F/X loop from your guitar to see if you have signal then.

[FrankJohnson]

Seriously, R78 and R79 are the source of the majority of problems with this amp.

I think that was the first failure point in mine - replaced....

then.....something else went - might have been a ceramic resister or similar.....

several times - re-solder the 12ax7 socket pins -

it is going on 4-5 years clean for me I think.

It has a super nice clean circuit, and when I run it in drive mode, just enough gain to put some hair on it when you get on it. its nice - no pedals required.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Did we ever get resolution on this one?

The input jacks are notoriously crappy on these.

[tonebrulee]

Did we ever get resolution on this one?

Yup - loose pins on the V1 socket. Hit it with a little Deoxit and re-tensioned the pins.. back to normal now. Thanks for all the suggestions folks!

[phantomman]

Treat it like a newborn infant for the remaining term of your ownership and you might luck out and get a few good years out of it.

IOW, don't expect it to perform or last like a *real* Fender amp.

[stratcat55]

I used to borrow my HRDlx from my amp tech because he had it more than I did. The thing I'm greatful for about that amp was between it and the the people on this forum, I got the confidence to eventually start building and modding amp and pedal kits. I figured if the amp turned out to be a total POS, I had no one to blame but myself. I've never designed or scratch built one yet, but I see a scratch built one in my future. It's a lot of fun and extremely satisfiying to not only build a great sounding reliable amp, but not get electrocuted in the process.

[tonebrulee]

Treat it like a newborn infant for the remaining term of your ownership and you might luck out and get a few good years out of it. IOW, don't expect it to perform or last like a *real* Fender amp.

Yeah, the handful of design/build faults are a definite problem - shame on Fender for not fixing them all - but it's also true they are all correctable, at which point I'd expect a HRDx to stand up just fine. Not that that's any great consolation if you have to pay an amp tech $150-$200 to fix them, but if you buy a used one for $400, have all the faults fixed for another $200, you end up with a terrific sounding Fender clean amp with lots of headroom in a very nice, compact package for $600 total that should last as well as any of Fender's current PCB production amps. Just my $0.02.

[tonebrulee]

I used to borrow my HRDlx from my amp tech because he had it more than I did. The thing I'm greatful for about that amp was between it and the the people on this forum, I got the confidence to eventually start building and modding amp and pedal kits. I figured if the amp turned out to be a total POS, I had no one to blame but myself. I've never designed or scratch built one yet, but I see a scratch built one in my future. It's a lot of fun and extremely satisfiying to not only build a great sounding reliable amp, but not get electrocuted in the process.

Hey @stratcat55 - LOL re: borrowing your HRDx and great point about getting into diy. I got into building a few years ago (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/shock-bro...rated-amp.html) and find it really enjoyable too. With some build/mod know-how, a used HRDx for $400 ends up being a great deal IMO, once you fix the handful of design/build faults. And as I mentioned above, even without the know-how to diy, spending $200 to have a good tech correct them for you still gets you a great Fender clean package for $600.

[NTBluesGuitar]

The whole PCB is a design fault, in my experience. It gets to the point where it's not even serviceable.



But then, you get to do some 'SUPER' things to it.

[tonebrulee]

Hi @NTBluesGuitar - wow.. very, very nice hand wired retrofit! Your picture of the burnt PCB is the overheating R78/R79 problem right? Yeah, if it gets to that point you've definitely got a mess to fix up. But it's easy to fix that problem before it gets to that point which is what I'm suggesting - i.e. buy one cheap and then make all the corrections at once as a prophylactic measure.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Yessir!

Easiest, most effective repair you can do. I've done it many many times:



But this is one of many issues that this board is plagued by.



Outside of the PCB and all components on board, the rest of the amp is solid! That's why I developed the conversion for it.

[phantomman]

Hi @NTBluesGuitar - wow.. very, very nice hand wired retrofit! Your picture of the burnt PCB is the overheating R78/R79 problem right? Yeah, if it gets to that point you've definitely got a mess to fix up. But it's easy to fix that problem before it gets to that point which is what I'm suggesting - i.e. buy one cheap and then make all the corrections at once as a prophylactic measure.

Everybody loves a barbecue but the "caramel sundae" meltdown shouldn't be forgotten......

[phantomman]

Hi @NTBluesGuitar - wow.. very, very nice hand wired retrofit! Your picture of the burnt PCB is the overheating R78/R79 problem right? Yeah, if it gets to that point you've definitely got a mess to fix up. But it's easy to fix that problem before it gets to that point which is what I'm suggesting - i.e. buy one cheap and then make all the corrections at once as a prophylactic measure.

Everybody loves a barbecue but the "caramel sundae" meltdown shouldn't be ignored......



These IC electrolytics are part and parcel of every sack of crap that FMIC makes.

[NTBluesGuitar]

Everybody loves a barbecue but the "caramel sundae" meltdown shouldn't be forgotten......

SWEET BEARDED BABY JESUS!!!

Looks like a Super or Twin Reverb RI? Hell, with all that collateral damage, I can't say if it's not a Deluxe Reverb RI.