Playing in a cover band...How the heck to you do the pedal dance?

[CyberStrat]

Hey all,

The question is just what the title says. How do you do the pedal dance when you have to change 2 or 3 pedals at the same time. My example is I have to change from clean chorus sound to a boosted lead tone, so to make the change I have to step on 3 pedals at the same time. I understand the looper idea, but in this case it's only for one song. Most of the time I'm using my distortion rythm sound, then just using a eq to change tone & boost volume. That's fine when it's just one pedal.

I just changed from my Pod xt live about 2 months ago, I'm really liking the tones out of my stomp boxes, but missing the patch idea of the XT.

Any ideas? any cover band players out there, that can give me advise?

Thanks

Cyber

[Kap'n]

I don't. Virtually everything I do is covers. I don't bother with most modulation or wah effects. If I find myself adding a song regularly to a set list that requires a modulation effect, I'll bring it along.

Right now the rig is Compressor, a couple of distortion pedals, and a delay. I could easily knock it down to one distortion and a delay, or in a pinch, just a dirtbox, but I like the extra flexibility.

I've never met an audience member who said "I didn't hear any chorus on Message in a Bottle."

[Custom 5]

You can hit the lead boost first, and then turn the chorus off as you go. No one will notice as long as the boost hit is in the right place.

I have some of my pedals set up next to eachother so I can stomp 2 at a time.

Good for you making the effort to change your sound during a song! So many bands out there start to sound so samey if the guitar players won't put in the effort to produce the sounds a song calls for.

My rig consists of a 2 channel amp, wah, chorus, EQ, delay and 4 stages of gain that I use for solo boost, or beefing up a single coil sound, or just raunching up a cool rhythm part. All subtle and discreet. Changing the sound from song to song really makes it good for the audience and helps avoid the band falling into a "drone sound" song after song after song. Cheers for your efforts mate!

[Totally bored]

All that time waisted on using a Pod XT live has made you weak . As time goes on you'll get stronger and figure it all out.





Peace.

[Gris]

I feel your pain. As a no-pedals guy for a long time, after three years of a board I still struggle with 'the pedal dance.' My solution is a hybrid of what has been suggested. I've tried to whittle down the board, but I still find there are things I need to sound right. So, I got an A/B/Y box. From my guitar I go into a tuner and some 'always on' effects (subtle photo comp, subtle verb/delay), then on one branch go the clean effects and the other the a graduated chain of cascade-able dirt boxes. This way I just hit A or B for clean of dirty, then I have levels of each chain I can go to. Being an old guy I also have to keep a small spiral notebook w/ notes on songs that require certain sounds. That way I don't forget to hit the buttons once the groove is on... :-)

[curtisstetka]

Ask the bass player for help?

[Offshore Angler]

I use a loop controller and set "patches" before the song with my feet.

There are also stompbox controllers that you can actually edit patches with and program for different songs.

http://www.voodoolab.com/commander.htm

Voodoo Lab makes some decent stuff that's not too expensive. Or I guess if you want to go nuts you could have a Bradshaw rig made.

Another thing to consider would be getting a Power Engine for the POD if you don't have one already.

[pc]

I'm like Kap'n--I don't. My pedalboard is Boss TU-2, Crybaby Wah, Hermida Zendrive. That's it. All my levels of crunch are done with the volume knob. The Zendrive is on for about 70 percent of our material, just dialed back on my guitar when I want cleaner tones.

If we do a song where echo/delay is an intregal part, I'll lean back and turn up the DRRI's reverb for that song. I do love delay but I'm currently working without it at gigs. My band does three hours of covers at every gig, pulling from a repertoire of about 75 or 80 cover tunes, and I have yet to miss any effect not in my chain.

Oh, and I no longer give a crap about my tuner being inline. Yes, it probably sucks a little tone, but honestly, who the hell is going to hear that at a gig? Same with my wireless at the few gigs I actually use it--it doesn't sound as good as a cord... in a studio. At a gig with bashing drums, crashing cymbals, rumbling bass and everything else--who will notice this stuff? Or even, as Kap'n says whether I'm nailing Andy Summers' chorused, compressed sound on "Don't Stand So Close To Me?"

If I'm the only one noticing it, that means I'm not thinking about playing music.

(And of course, YMMV and no diss to the people who do the pedal dance--it took me years and years of doing it that way before I arrived at this solution that works best for me and the music my band does.)

[Kap'n]

no diss to the people who do the pedal dance

Absolutely. For me, it's just more stuff to lug, concentrate on, and get wrong. I mean, somebody might not notice if you don't have your chorus on, but they'll sure as hell notice if you hit the flanger rather than the overdrive.

[Offshore Angler]

Absolutely. For me, it's just more stuff to lug, concentrate on, and get wrong. I mean, somebody might not notice if you don't have your chorus on, but they'll sure as hell notice if you hit the flanger rather than the overdrive.

Yet another one to agree. Even though I have a pretty complex effects board with loop control, about all I take to a gig lately is my RAT. The amp's trem and reverb cover all the rest of the bases.


I don't even bother with the tuner pedal anymore unless I'm going to do some drop D. I just use my little battery job and check before each set.


Interestingly, when I use the PODxt/Power Engine setup, I just set it up like an amp and use the RAT as well.

[CyberStrat]

thanks for the suggestions.

I'm definately trying to keep it simple.

My chain is this.

planet waves pedal tuner
MXR super comp
Metal Muff
Boss Kelley modded DS-1 (just excellent)
Boss EQ for solo boost

I get my delay, chorus, & 3rd level of distortion from my new Fender Deluxe VM. This amp is very versitale and sounds pretty darn good. Very nice to have the EQ on both channels. Kills the Classic 30 I had been using. Fender Clean and a great OD channel.

I'm really want to keep a small board. Most of the places we play are very small and I'm standing on top of my amp...not even enough room for a stand, infact, I usually prop something under the amp to tilt it back. I'll most likely add tilt back legs.

Cyber

[Kap'n]

That's a relatively tight board. You shouldn't need to dance too much.

[chuckocaster]

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...ad.php?t=41248

i use it all the time, to go straight from fuzz to synth. you can preset which loop you want before engaging the looper. super easy to build, and about 40 bucks in parts.

[Mesotech]

I'm another one of the minimalists. I built a nice pedal board, but frankly it's too big to lug around and a real hassle on a small stage. I find that bringing the right amp for the job saves me a lot in terms of pedals. While I keep a distortion, delay, chorus, and Big Muff in my bag, but I seldom need to use them.

Running into a Valve Jr. set at 11:00 gets me a nice clean with a Fender guitar with the guitar's volume turned down a little, and a great crunch with the guitar full on. The same amp setting gets me all the distortion I need with a Gibson HB guitar set full on, and a nice full bodied clean with the guitar volume rolled back. So, prudent guitar choice, pick attack, and guitar volume/tone control can get me past any dirt pedal dependancies.

I don't play guitar on the songs we do that require Wah, I'm on the keys instead. The same with the songs with delay, I'm on the keys.

So basically, I avoid the pedal dance by substituting the guitar swap method every couple of songs. Interestingly I'm sure my method is more expensive than lots of pedals.

Our other guitar player also has a minimum of pedals, but uses a modern channel switching amp with 3 channels and a lead boost (Mesa Dual Rec). His pedal board consists of a tuner, Morley Wah, and DD3 Delay. He plays almost exclusively with Fat Strats.

We do covers exclusively and pull from a list of about 200 songs ranging from Aretha Franklin to Metallica, Finger Eleven to ZZ Top, and pretty much everything in between.

[Gris]

My ultimate goal is to have two medium small heads stacked on one cab; a BF and a tweedish one. I'll still use my 12"x17" board though.

[Cygnus X1]

How about this...
I line out a dry signal from the tube rig into a Peavey Studio Chorus. Which has great stereo chorus and reverb.
I use the pedals from that amp to control the effects and gain boost.
Best of both worlds.

[Custom 5]

If I may respectfully submit, a guitar player in a cover band needs to have a lot of tricks up his sleeve if they're going to effectively cover music from the 70's 80's and 90's.

Those guys out there that just go guitar, chord, amp will have no problem with a blues gig, or 50's / 60's pop gig, but funk, motown, rock and pop from the 70's forward do sound most enjoyable with the right guitar of effects.

When I hear a band play, I always enjoy the guitar player much more when he plays his sound effectively and I kinda feel like it makes the difference between a good band vs a great band. But that's just me. For guys like me the beauty is in the details.

[Kap'n]

Those guys out there that just go guitar, chord, amp will have no problem with a blues gig, or 50's / 60's pop gig, but funk, motown, rock and pop from the 70's forward do sound most enjoyable with the right guitar of effects.

PC's band does exactly that - funk, Motown, etc. I'd wager they're probably the most booked, best paid band in their area.

OK, you're not going to play "Theme from Shaft" without a wah-wah, or early U2 without a delay, but as mentioned before, very few tunes have the effects as an integral part of the song.

I'd rather hear a good song performed well, than loads of fizzy-swirly on anything.

[hudpucker]

I'd personally rather hear the 'correct' effect IF the band/player is doing the human jukebox thing but if there's some intentional subjective interpretation in the rendition then I'll afford some leeway...

...unless the player sucks. Then it doesn't matter what he/she uses, IMO.

[Custom 5]

I'd personally rather hear the 'correct' effect IF the band/player is doing the human jukebox thing but if there's some intentional subjective interpretation in the rendition then I'll afford some leeway...

...unless the player sucks. Then it doesn't matter what he/she uses, IMO.

Good point. There are always conditions and circumstances that dictate the appropriate measures. Then there's what's in your own mind too!

[cooltone]

I was in a cover band once with two other guitar players. It got to the point where it became impossible to generate a set list because one guy would say "I gotta switch guitars here for a strat sound and here for a Les Paul sound." And the other guy would say he had to switch here and here for the same reasons. Three songs and 15 minutes of guitar switching and tuning.
At the end of it all, no one in the audience really cared. We just couldn't get out of the way of ourselves.

As a player, I love to hear when effects are approximated or even nailed correctly on a cover tune. But, what I think I like even more is when the guitar player plays the song correctly with the correct technique.

I think that you can be economical with guitars and effects and focus on nailing the technique of the song and the audience will appreciate both.

[thegeezer]

I'll probably take it on the chin for this but I like bands that do covers in the way they hear it, in other words improvisational creative and new. I will be the first to tell you I don't do covers well and have to play the other way I mentioned. We do gig though and nobody seems to mind our infractions.

[curtisstetka]

I agree with thegeezer (and some of the rest of you) - I'd rather hear a band that takes a cover and makes it their own, adding some interesting twists.

That said, I personally like effects. It's taken a long time for me to learn when not to use them.

[Rickenjangle]

I agree with thegeezer (and some of the rest of you) - I'd rather hear a band that takes a cover and makes it their own, adding some interesting twists.

That said, I personally like effects. It's taken a long time for me to learn when not to use them.

I'm an effects junkie, and I work hard to craft the sounds to fit the part - but my 'covers' are done on modern rock worship music where everyone who is recording now has learned all their licks from The Edge and Billy Corgan...so I need a chimy modulated delay, a couple of dirt boxes, and a wah pedal..and a tremolo pedal, and a phaser, and etc. etc. etc.

My small pedalboard is probably bigger than some folks' only board, and my big one weighs about 1,000 lbs. But I have fun with them, so I keep using them.

Curtis, I am sure that many of us on here enjoy hearing covers done up with twists, but the rank and file bar patron probably would like to hear things that sound pretty much like they've heard on the record...

Oh, and with Crossfyre, I can cut that gig with a TS9, SD1, and DD3, so I usually don't even bring a pedalboard out to those gigs. So, I guess you could say I fit the effects to the gig situation...

[Gris]

It's taken a long time for me to learn when not to use them.

WURD!

[thegeezer]

I'm an effects junkie, and I work hard to craft the sounds to fit the part - but my 'covers' are done on modern rock worship music where everyone who is recording now has learned all their licks from The Edge and Billy Corgan...so I need a chimy modulated delay, a couple of dirt boxes, and a wah pedal..and a tremolo pedal, and a phaser, and etc. etc. etc.

My small pedalboard is probably bigger than some folks' only board, and my big one weighs about 1,000 lbs. But I have fun with them, so I keep using them.

Curtis, I am sure that many of us on here enjoy hearing covers done up with twists, but the rank and file bar patron probably would like to hear things that sound pretty much like they've heard on the record...

Oh, and with Crossfyre, I can cut that gig with a TS9, SD1, and DD3, so I usually don't even bring a pedalboard out to those gigs. So, I guess you could say I fit the effects to the gig situation...

There is no one perfect way to play as far as effects or clean go, It's All Good!

[curtisstetka]

Curtis, I am sure that many of us on here enjoy hearing covers done up with twists, but the rank and file bar patron probably would like to hear things that sound pretty much like they've heard on the record...

Yeah, I completely agree with that statement. It's kind of a sad commentary on how people relate to music these days. They don't know what they like but they like what they know.

With many things in pop culture - it's seems that people are waiting for someone else to tell them what to like. They're not really capable of making their own discernment as to what's good or bad.

I think listening to a band that gets covers note perfect is boring. I can credit them with the work it took to get to that point but it's not something I personally enjoy hearing.

[thegeezer]

Yeah, I completely agree with that statement. It's kind of a sad commentary on how people relate to music these days. They don't know what they like but they like what they know.

With many things in pop culture - it's seems that people are waiting for someone else to tell them what to like. They're not really capable of making their own discernment as to what's good or bad.

I think listening to a band that gets covers note perfect is boring. I can credit them with the work it took to get to that point but it's not something I personally enjoy hearing.

Oh I wouldn't say that, but I disagree that patrons don't like twists or I would never have a gig. On the coasts they expect original music, it's just getting to be like that in the mid states.

[Kap'n]

Doing covers note/effect perfect is a skill.

OTOH, if you want to hear the record, go play the jukebox.

Much like photography relegated realistic painting to a small niche, inexpensive, relatively high-quality sound reproduction has made note-perfect cover bands pretty much superfluous. Most people can't tell a real live performance anyway. Milli Vanilli proved it in the 80's, and lots of big time touring acts are proving it today.

[hudpucker]

They don't know what they like but they like what they know.

Is this why 'classic rock' playlists are so prevalent on corporate radio?


Yeah, let's hear "Born to be Wild" for the 5,496th time....(sarcasm not directed at you)

[thegeezer]

That would be due to us baby boomers which is the largest demographic group in the USA. We that at one time would be anxious to hear live music of a creative nature now settle for the same 40 songs over and over.

[Kap'n]

Yeah, let's hear "Born to be Wild" for the 5,496th time....(sarcasm not directed at you)

We can be independent, together!

[fetchzee]

I've been playing a fair-sized pedal board for a while and have modified the "pedal dance" somewhat - I tend to switch things in stages. If I'm on a clean chorused sound and want to switch to a boosted overdrive for a lead, I'll turn the chorus off on the first beat of the last measure before the lead. I'll hit the overdrive on the last beat of the measure, then hit the boost along with the first note of the lead. As long as you're switching pedals on the downbeat, it will sound "right."

My $.02.

[Don]

I'm fortunate to be an amateur. Even when we play for a crowd, I can use what I like.

Any swirly sounds that I need I make with a tremolo pedal and my H&K Rotosphere rotating cab simulator. That covers all phase, flange, chorus, etc... well enough for me, in fact I think it sounds better.

The only other pedals that I have with me are a delay, a clean boost and fuzz pedal. Whether I have my 5E3 clone or my Mesa/Boogie with me, the amp and the fuzz pedal cover my overdriven sounds.

[thegeezer]

I am no pro and don't expect to be, but many pros don't use anything except a good amp or two and guitar. But than again Jimi used effects and he was a pro too.

[Kap'n]

But than again Jimi used effects and he was a pro too.

I don't think Jimi every used anything more than a fuzz, a wah, and a univibe live.

OTOH, those were pretty much the only effects available, except tremolo, which was considered 'quaint' at the time, and reverb, which for the most part, came in an amp.

[Don]

There's a huge difference between the needs of a rock star and the needs of a player in a cover band (who has to cover a lot of rock stars)!

[Rickenjangle]

Lots of pros use huge Cornish and Bradshaw racks and switchers. Just about everyone I saw playing at a conference I went to last year had professionally made pedalboard arrays - one guy even had 2!

On the other hand, Will McFarlane, who was Bonnie Raitt's tour guitarist for awhile in the '70's, and is a session musician at Muscle Shoals, showed up at the conference with a vintage strat, tele, and a Carr amp - and he was amazing. So, you don't necessarily need one - I suppose it's all down to personal preference...

[Gris]

Yeah, let's hear "Born to be Wild" for the 5,496th time....(sarcasm not directed at you)

At a gig we did couple of summers ago a guy who went on before us did an AMAZING version of 'Born to Be Wild,' just him and his acoustic guitar. He went crazy on a solo. Maybe had an open tuning or something, at least his playing was like that.

Saw another dude at another venue do the same with 'Norwegian Wood.' You wouldn't even have recognized it.

It's all there for the taking. You just have to use your imagination.

[hudpucker]

That's fine...but I was referring the hearing the same old tired-ass version ad nauseum on the radio.


The human jukebox version wouldn't move me either; a creative rendition like that of which you speak might though.