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Thread: Refinishing a MIM Strat

  1. #1
    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi all,

    I own a MIM '50s Strat. It's quite a unique model. For starters it doesn't have that typical orange-ish burst that most MIM '50s have, my model is more on the yellow side which I think gives it more of that vintage shade. The necks profile isn't the typical V either. It's more like a C which is very unusual for these models. I lucked out in a lot of way concerning this strat.

    I've also added a lot of mods, huge frets (Dunlop 6000), Dimarzio "Area '58s" in neck/middle positions, a HS-2 in the bridge, 300 CTS pots, EJ tone pot mod, Am vintage saddles and one brass saddle for the high E. I've done alot to make this thing sound righteous.



    My only prob is that dang polyurethane clear coat. I can't stand the fact that it will never age like a vintage strat. And also that the wood can't "breath" like a vintage strat. I just recently bought a CS '65 Strat and I can totally feel and hear a difference. I want a nitro finish on my MIM.

    1. Will stripping the neck and body, re-spaying the 2-tone (tabacco?) more yellow-ish burst, re-spraying the neck and applying nitro cost more than...

    2. Getting a Fender '57 Body and neck and swapping my gear onto that body and spending another $250 for the fret job, or...

    3. Get the Fender '57 body and only strip my neck and redo it with nitro.

    Which would be the better and cheaper option?

    I look forward to some replies. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    How does the guitar play an' sound right now?
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  3. #3
    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi,

    Well... it sounds kinda sterile. It's not quite as warm as I'd like, or as a vintage, or Am. vintage reissue is.

    Of course I can just say, "Hell, it's not broken", which is what I've done for the 4 yrs. I've owned it. I just feel like I'm missing out of some amount of tone if I can't get this thin nitro on this particular strat which I feel would make the over all guitar sound more like toneful alder rather than sterile plastic, you know what I mean?

    Or is it just a stupid or nieve thought in your opinion?

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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    I'd strip it & redo it all in nitro, but I"m just funny that way. If you do it, then get ready for a LOT of work.
    I've done it w/a number of MIJ, CIJ, & MIM RI guitars. There's more to do than just stripping off the poly, & that in itself is quite a chore. You should route a tiny bit out of the cavities & re-radius the body, too. This will bring it closer to vintage spec & shave off some weight, too.

  5. #5
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    I have an essentially similar guitar to yours......



    DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups, plus a MIA steel-block trem, and some cosmetic upgrades in the interests of historical accuracy (repro Klusons, serial-numbered neck plate, repro Patent Pending saddles). To be honest, the guitar (despite its poly finish) sounds pretty organic through any of my five current rigs whether vintage or re-issue. Nobody who's ever played it has ever been disappointed.

    A total re-fin will doubtless make your guitar prettier but frankly I'm skeptical that it'll satisfy your search for "tone". And -- as mentioned -- stripping and refinishing one of those poly bodies and/or necks is very labor-intensive. Honestly, you might be better off starting a new-build guitar with unfinished parts from USACG or Allparts.

    Regardless, if you haven't already done so I'd recommend that you hook-shot that pot-metal POS trem block into the nearest dumpster an' git you some real steel under your bridge. Next to new pickups, tha's the most significant tonal improvement you can make with these MIM Strats.

    Best of luck, HTH
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  6. #6
    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat



    not a great pic, but this is an MIM 50's body with the stock bridge, an all parts neck, and some torres fralin knockoffs in it. stock poly finish, and this thing sounds killer. it sounded great when i had a different neck on it too. now granted i never played it with the stock pups in it, but i'd be hard pressed to think that it'd sound any better with a nitro finish on it. not to call you crazy, but i think a good guitar is a good guitar no matter what type of finish is sprayed on it.

    i think you should try some new pickups before you strip the body. maybe not cheaper, but definitely easier.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

  7. #7
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Tha's a killer-lookin' Strat, Chuck!

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member chuckocaster's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    thanks man! it really is a good strat, didn't take too much tweakin to get there.
    "don't worry, i'm a professional!"

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    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    If the mods you've done so far haven't gotten in the ballpark of the CS you bought for, what?, 3+ times what the MIM cost, perhaps the fact that you simply "want" a nitro finish will do it.

    A refinish is a lot of work. How well the process goes, whether you enjoy it or are frustrated by it may play some role whether you think you achieved your goal.

    Refinishing a Strat that has hum-cancelling p'ups to make it sound less sterile, warmer and more vintage is kind of a long shot, IMO.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi all,

    Thanks for the great replies and pics of your strats. I really appreciate them.

    NeoFauve- In your statement, "Refinishing a Strat that has hum-cancelling p'ups to make it sound less sterile, warmer and more vintage is kind of a long shot, IMO.", if that's one of my tone probs, which pick-ups do you recommend to get that true '54-'57 Strat sound? BTW, I have my HS-2 wired single-coil so I get a tad of hum so I don't wanna change that one, just the neck & middle if necessary.

    Phantomman, I will take you advice and throw that crappy pot metal block out and get a true steel one. What would be the best choice for one, company wise?

    Not sure what to do about the finish. My bass player friend told me that the finish doesn't matter at all, it all comes down to the type of fretboard (maple or rosewood) and the bridge. Then, a cat from Torres Engineering in San Mateo, Ca told me that nitro makes a big difference, but sometimes if the poly finish is thin enough it's just as good as nitro.

    Lots to ponder. Thanks again guys.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Offshore Angler's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by dstrats View Post
    Hi all,




    Not sure what to do about the finish. My bass player friend told me that the finish doesn't matter at all, it all comes down to the type of fretboard (maple or rosewood) and the bridge. Then, a cat from Torres Engineering in San Mateo, Ca told me that nitro makes a big difference, but sometimes if the poly finish is thin enough it's just as good as nitro.

    Lots to ponder. Thanks again guys.

    You have a smart base player. I have Carvin Strat that has been poly, nitro, Rustoleum, and is now pretty much bare wood. ( I could never decide what I wanted it to look like, so now it's a rat-rod. )It has always sounded the same. A new coat of paint will never turn a Chevette into a Corvette.
    "No harmonic knowledge, no sense of time, a ghastly tone, unskilled vibrato, and so on. Chuck is one of the worst guitar players I know" -Gravity Jim

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    Forum Member Totally bored's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Bullcrap on the Nitro sounds better than Poly. I have some poly guitars that sound killer. Also, alot of Nitro Strats have a Poly undercoat so go figure ? Everytime my CAR 62 AV RI Chips it leaves a little gold undercoat of poly showing. Nitro sounds better and breathe's better is all hype, go ahead and buy into that if you must.

    Change out that Block for sure and...

    FWIW I prefer the Area 61's over the the Area 58's. Also the HS2 is a weaker pup and I would prefer a HS3 in the Bridge over the the HS2. You also have that pup in single coil mode so..... that pup will sound more brighter and vintage like than a HS3 but I'm not sure about the way you have it wired. Kind of wierd mismatch you have there IMO.

    If you want vintage sound than get a set of 57/62's or something Vintage like.

  13. #13
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    My dog might be able to hear the difference between nitro and poly though he doesn't care.

    I can't hear the difference and I do care.

    In any case, the guitar won't sound better with nitro.

  14. #14
    Forum Member Totally bored's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    BTW Here's my 94 Waynes World 2 MIM Poly strat.
    She has a Callaham Steel Block and CS Texas Special Strat pups in her. Sounds killer.


    And heres my 2006 MIA Anniversary Strat "Poly" with 57/62's in her.
    Also sounds killer.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    The only guitar that re-fin'g ever made a diff on for me was a MIM '72 Thinline Reissue. All I did was sand about 1/2 inch (i kid you not) poly off (took forever). With the F holes it did seem to make a diff. Other guitars i dunno.

  16. #16
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by dstrats View Post
    "... if that's one of my tone probs, which pick-ups do you recommend to get that true '54-'57 Strat sound?"
    I was only pointing out the conundrum of what you have, how you've modded it, and what you want to expect from it.
    I kind of doubt that you have tone problems.
    You say- "My only prob is that dang polyurethane clear coat. I can't stand the fact that it will never age like a vintage strat. And also that the wood can't "breath" like a vintage strat. I just recently bought a CS '65 Strat and I can totally feel and hear a difference. I want a nitro finish on my MIM."

    If you really believe the breathing stuff, then ultimately a refin or a different body are all that will scratch that it for you. Because you want nitro.

    But first, just to see what happens, why not just swap the whole guard assembly from the CS on to the MIM for a few days, and see how you like it?
    Your desire for nitro may make it impossible for you to relax and learn to love this Strat, but this experiment won't even cost you very much time.
    Play it, listen to it, then make your decision.

    It's worth noting that Strat's didn't have hum cancelling p'ups in the 50's, they didn't have one brass saddle. But there was a plasticky coating beneath the nitro.
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally bored View Post
    ...my 94 Waynes World 2 MIM Poly strat...has a Callaham Steel Block and CS Texas Special Strat pups in her. Sounds killer.
    My MIM parts-o-caster also has a Callaham steel block and CS Tx Specials in it. I can concur that the Callaham block makes a niiiiice improvement.

    Ahh...yes...the obligatory shot of the piece of gear that's being raved about:





    FWIW, I don't believe that a refinish is going to affect your sound in any significant way; at least not the way you're hoping it to. As others have said, the bridge and pickups are the two best ways to affect the sound. Maybe the wiring setup is worth looking at, too.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  18. #18
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Lawdy Lawdy, lookie them flames!!!

    Man that is a gorgeous neck, TJ. The entire package is abso-tively stunning!

    I don't know that there's any substantial difference between the steel used in a Callaham block and that of a MIA Fender. I use the Fenders as a matter of convenience and cost containment (they're a skosh cheeper than Callaham's).

    A caveat though......the vintage-sized MIM bridge plates are not exact clones of their American counter-parts. The steel block (MIA or Callaham) will bolt up fine but the access hole for the trem arm does not jive with the location of the threaded hole in the block. Thus, I routinely replace the entire bridge on the MIM guitars with a new US trem bridge assembly.

    HTH
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  19. #19
    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi all,

    Thanks for helping me see that it's not the polyurethanes fault I'm not getting what I want out of this strat but that it's really the pick-ups and brass saddle that is. If so many other guitarist here use poly strats and they sound awesome with the right p'ups then I just gotta get better pick-ups. Certainly alot cheaper.

    Thanks again.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Don's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    It's not necessarily the pickups or brass saddle either.

    Back in the mid '86 I bought a brand new '57 reissue Strat that was dark and dead. It was my first Strat and I was too excited and uninformed to know that they weren't all the same. I tried all kinds of remedies with no solution.

    After about two years I sold it to a high gain player and moved on.

    I'd consider replacing the pickups on your guitar with real single coils.

  21. #21
    Forum Member NeoFauve's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    You already have a good set mounted in a pickguard to audition.
    (paragraph 4 post 16)
    "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
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    Forum Member Direstraits's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoFauve View Post
    You already have a good set mounted in a pickguard to audition.
    (paragraph 4 post 16)
    +1

    When You point your finger 'cause your plan fell through, you've got 3 more fingers pointing back at you.

  23. #23
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    That HS2 in the bridge may account for why the guitar sounds so dark. A Virtual Vintage Solo Pro would prolly warm thangs up considerably.

    HTH

    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

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    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    Lawdy Lawdy, lookie them flames!!!

    Man that is a gorgeous neck, TJ. The entire package is abso-tively stunning!

    ...A caveat though......the vintage-sized MIM bridge plates are not exact clones of their American counter-parts. The steel block (MIA or Callaham) will bolt up fine but the access hole for the trem arm does not jive with the location of the threaded hole in the block.
    Those flames are factory MIM!

    Also, if you order Callaham's Mexican Block, it matches up to MIM spaced bridges.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  25. #25
    Forum Member phantomman's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    There are two MIM trem bridges -- "vintage" (with 2-7/32" spacing) and "modern" (with the narrow 2-1/16" asian spacing).

    Which one does Callaham make a block for?
    "When injustice becomes law then rebellion becomes duty."

  26. #26
    Forum Member Gris's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    or just put one new PU in the neck and see what happens...

  27. #27
    Forum Member NTBluesGuitar's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomman View Post
    There are two MIM trem bridges -- "vintage" (with 2-7/32" spacing) and "modern" (with the narrow 2-1/16" asian spacing).

    Which one does Callaham make a block for?
    Both! Sorry for my confusing post earlier.

    I have the 2 1/16" block.
    "...pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field;
    that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little,
    shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome, insects of the hour."

    -Edmund Burke

  28. #28
    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi all,

    OK, here is a risky request, cuz it may just prove that I'm crazy.

    Please excuse the playing, I'm really not that good. Anyway, here are some vid examples of the strat I'm having tone troubles with. I ask of you good people to tell me if you hear a difference between the before and after and if it is good strat tone or bad. If it's good to y'all then I guess I'm just crazy.

    1st vid- this is the strat with stock neck and middle p-ups and 250k pots and no brass saddle in the hi-E. I do have the HS-2 in the bridge but it's used in combo w/mid p-up for the last solo. The majority of the song the strat is set to neck/mid tone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obokGWSXAW0

    2nd vid- here the strat has the Area '58s' in the neck and middle, and 300k pots. I believe I use the neck and middle p-ups setting for the entire tune.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObdAy59nks

    Both vids I'm going through a Vox wah, Ts-808 and Ts-7 and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe set to clean.

    Please be kind, and I look forward to some replies. Thanks in advance.

  29. #29
    Forum Member dzguitar10's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    IMHO refinishing will do little to make your guitars tone any better. I have a black MIM and I did the following mods.
    • Replaced the stock bridge assembly with a Callaham Vintage Assembly for the MIM Stratocaster. BIG difference in sustain and tone! All around better manufactured piece... expensive but best bang for bucks.
    • Replaced the stock pickups with Fender Vintage Hot Noiseless and shielded the guitar completely... another BIG difference in tone! Sounds much more vintage and will get "knarly" when cranked up through the amp for solos.
    • Replaced nut with a better quality tusq type... between this and the Callaham bridge... the sustain, harmonics and vintage vibe is perfect!

    I've played many Strat's both vintage and late model american made models and this guitar is better sounding and much cheaper even with the mods I have made than an "off the shelf" MIA model! I build guitars on the side and do a lot of luthier projects for people around the area here where I live and they're amazed at how this guitar sounds! It is my main stage guitar now and was intended to be my backup when I purchased it.

    As far as stripping the finish... unless you're patient and have a butt load of time on your hands I wouldn't do it. I might suggest that if you really want to consider anything in the way of refinishing... sand down a few layers and then wet sand using 800, 1000, 1200 and possibly one step higher and rebuff the entire guitar with a finishing glaze and a final buffing with a product like 3M's Finesseit II. You'll get a more vintage "worn"or "reliced" looking appearance.

    Good Luck with whatever you decide!

  30. #30
    Forum Member dzguitar10's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    IMHO refinishing will do little to make your guitars tone any better. I have a black MIM and I did the following mods.
    • Replaced the stock bridge assembly with a Callaham Vintage Assembly for the MIM Stratocaster. BIG difference in sustain and tone! All around better manufactured piece... expensive but best bang for bucks.
    • Replaced the stock pickups with Fender Vintage Hot Noiseless and shielded the guitar completely... another BIG difference in tone! Sounds much more vintage and will get "knarly" when cranked up through the amp for solos.
    • Replaced nut with a better quality tusq type... between this and the Callaham bridge... the sustain, harmonics and vintage vibe is perfect!

    I've played many Strat's both vintage and late model american made models and this guitar is better sounding and much cheaper even with the mods I have made than an "off the shelf" MIA model! I build guitars on the side and do a lot of luthier projects for people around the area here where I live and they're amazed at how this guitar sounds! It is my main stage guitar now and was intended to be my backup when I purchased it.

    As far as stripping the finish... unless you're patient and have a butt load of time on your hands I wouldn't do it. I might suggest that if you really want to consider anything in the way of refinishing... sand down a few layers and then wet sand using 800, 1000, 1200 and possibly one step higher and rebuff the entire guitar with a finishing glaze and a final buffing with a product like 3M's Finesseit II. You'll get a more vintage "worn"or "reliced" looking appearance and achieve a little more resonance or "breathing" throughout the body.

    Good Luck with whatever you decide!

  31. #31
    Forum Member dzguitar10's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Sorry guys about the double posting above... However as an addition to the above posts... some, if not all good automotive body shops have tool or meter they use to test paint thickness particularly on classic cars. You might try calling around to a few and see if they have one and take the guitar body over and see just how thick that poly is and then you can sand off enough to get you close to the wood but not through it! Then follow the instructions I gave for wet sanding and buffing it out again.

  32. #32
    Forum Member dstrats's Avatar
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    Re: Refinishing a MIM Strat

    Hi all,

    dzguitar10, thanks so much for that sanding info. I truly appreciate it! I was thinking about just sanding down the the clear coat to get a more vintage look but wasn't really sure how to go about it until now.

    Thanks again.

    Happy New Year everyone. Be safe!

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