Expanding my horizons..

[Dr S]

I've been thinking about best to teach myself about modes, from what I see, i'm thinking about them as extensions to either the Minor or Major pentatonic scale so treating the extra notes as 'character' notes that can only be used in certain situtions, much like the blue note in the blues scale.

So I think what I'm going to try and do is this, I've got a few blues backing tracks in different styles. I need to be able to follow these and know always what chord I'm playing over, kindof more consiously than unconsiously. Then I need to try adding the character notes to see what sort of flavour I get?

Does that make any sense? I'm thinking that thinking modally doesn't make any sense until you have the context for it?

Cheers Nick

[68Bassman]

That's a good way to look at it, I would start with the Dorian Mode.

BW

[Dr S]

Cheers I'm stuck in a hotel room a couple of nights this week so I'll get started!

[Mesotech]

I always thought of modes as starting any given major scale on the different notes of that scale. So playing a C major scale, starting on D and ending on D is the Dorian mode. Starting the C major scale on G and ending on G is the Mixoledian, ect...

Likewise, taking the C major scale and dropping three notes is the Pentatonic.

So, learn the major scale and you've learned more than you could imagine. The rest is theory.

[Larson]

Hey Dr S, what you just said is exactly how I look at it. I haven't learned all of the modes by heart but I have learned all 5 Pentatonic positions. I'm now starting to use notes outside of the 5 notes in the pentatonic scale (flavor notes as you call them), in these pentatonic positions to see how they sound and then I just remember which notes sound good.

[chuckocaster]

i don't if this is really how it works, but i think of modes a little different. they are more about the songs than "scale positions". when i went to school, when we analyzed pieces of music you had better learn the modes. so say for instance the key base may be D minor, but there wouldn't be any B flats on the piece... so thus you'd be using the C major scale, but starting on the second note of the C major scale. it makes sense to my ears, you learn to hear how it works after awhile. you could for instance write a song with no sharps or flats, and it be based in G, thus mixlodyian mode. each mode has a sound and "feeling" to it. i think that might be what you're after. i personally don't feel using modes on a blues based backing track will really do justice to learning modes, cause it isn't exactly "correct" in calling it such. i think reading a theory book and practicing with that in mind while making up your own backing tracks would be more useful.

YMMV. and please don't think i'm trying to put down the idea of practicing to some blues backing tracks while playing from different positions.

[Dr S]

Thats quite an interesting observation, given that the mode defines the notes in the piece it must therefore define both the chords, so therefore a blues I VI V may not make sense. So the big question is what backing to get the context? A droning chord? Or different sequence for each mode?

[Mesotech]

There are a few modes that will work within a blues context. The most often used is the mixolydian. Being both major and minor at the same time, it works well with blues. Dorian also can work well in a blues context.

As Chuck stated, modal scales tend to have a flavor of their own. Take a major chord and play against it in each of the modes, you'll begin to hear how each lends a hint to a particular style of music. You can make solos that sound bluesy, oriental, flamenco, spooky, heavy metal, and others just by altering the mode played against that single major chord. Ironically, all of the notes for all of the modes are still the same as the major scale of that chord.

[Larson]

There are a few modes that will work within a blues context. The most often used is the mixolydian. Being both major and minor at the same time, it works well with blues. Dorian also can work well in a blues context.

As Chuck stated, modal scales tend to have a flavor of their own. Take a major chord and play against it in each of the modes, you'll begin to hear how each lends a hint to a particular style of music. You can make solos that sound bluesy, oriental, flamenco, spooky, heavy metal, and others just by altering the mode played against that single major chord. Ironically, all of the notes for all of the modes are still the same as the major scale of that chord.

Hey Mesotech, a friend of mine showed me how to figure out what key a song is in by looking at the treble clef on sheet music. You take the note that is the highest on the treble clef and lower it a half step which equals what key the song is written in.

[Mesotech]

Hey Mesotech, a friend of mine showed me how to figure out what key a song is in by looking at the treble clef on sheet music. You take the note that is the highest on the treble clef and lower it a half step which equals what key the song is written in.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, but it doesn't sound reliable in the least. If you're talking about the notes of a song, this method would be extremely unreliable. If you're talking about reading the sharps or flats in the key signature, this method would be way off.

There is nothing more reliable for determining the key of a song using sheet music than using the key signature indicated on the staff. When playing by ear, the key is a little more tricky to determine, and is generally derived by experience of knowing typical chord progressions and then determining the root of that structure (hint - the bass typically follows the root notes of most chords in most styles of music - but not always).

Knowing a little (or a lot) theory can be a good thing. "Focusing too much" on the theory can often get in the way of creativity. I try to use theory to determine "why" something worked, and not to deterime "how" to make something work.

YMMV

[68Bassman]

Very well stated Mesotech.
Trying to figure out what key a piece of sheet music is in can be a little tricky. Looking at the Key Signature may be only the first clue, as each major key also has a relative minor with the same key signature. Many things to consider.

Your statement of "Focusing to much" on the theory can often get in the way of creativity, rings so true in my life, sometimes you just have to throw that out so the creative part of the brain can flow. This really came to light once when having to contruct a certain solo and having a hard time with it my wife said " why don't you quit being so anal about it, throw the math out and just play it the way you feel it. OMG I had just been besmirched. But it worked, and has been working now for a couple of decades. I still have to remind myself to loosen up... before she does.

BW

[chuckocaster]

that's the rub, you've got to learn the math, and then forget it and just play.