I know this is a Fender Forum, but...

[demioblue]

I can't get into the LP forum for some reason. I'm thinking of replacing my pickups in my Edwards LP, and it's currently got Seymour Duncan 59's and JBs... They sound nice, but a bit weak. I'd like something with more balls, but which retains the nice hollow tone from the low output pups.

Any suggestions? how about SD Antiquity?

[Kap'n]

The JB is a pretty hot pickup, with a pretty sharp accent in the upper mids. If it's sounding weak to you, I think you've got a different problem than the wrong pickup.

[demioblue]

The JB is a pretty hot pickup, with a pretty sharp accent in the upper mids. If it's sounding weak to you, I think you've got a different problem than the wrong pickup.

Then what could the problem be? It doesn't sound as punchy as I'd like it...

[pseudocat]

How does the guitar sound unplugged? It's easy to focus so much on pickups that we miss the boat on the guitar itself.

[jeru]

The JB is a pretty hot pickup, with a pretty sharp accent in the upper mids. If it's sounding weak to you, I think you've got a different problem than the wrong pickup.

Kap'n has it right. Those pups should have sufficient balls.

The practical approach to troubleshoot this would be to take your guitar to a mega-store where they have a bunch of guitars and a bunch of amps. You can A/B your guitar with others and/or try different amps to figure out 1) what your guitar/pups sound like compared to others, and 2) whether another amp or different settings will allow you to get the 'punchiness' you want from your guitar.

Good luck, and let us know.

[jamisonst]

Even the '59 is to aggressive for me. What guitar are we talking about? Epiphone, Edwards...oh, ok? Been there, done that. You'll just have to grow out of it and upgrade. When you get ready for a real LP, I suggest picking up a nice used Heritage H-150 on Ebay. No Epiphones, Edwards, Gibson LP Studio, etc., etc. I've been through them all and in my 15 yrs of playing, my 2007 Heritage Goldtop is the best LP I've ever picked up. The Edwards are nice but still weren't close enough for me.

Now we can talk pickups....

[Kap'n]

I don't think that replacing his guitar with a $3K investment is the correct answer.

But thanks for trying.

[jamisonst]

I don't think that replacing his guitar with a $3K investment is the correct answer.

But thanks for trying.

Was that in regards to my post? Because a nice used Heritage H-150 can be had for less than $1,000....probably about what he paid for that Edwards. I bought my Goldtop brand new right before christmas and only paid $1,500 (I know I got a great deal) from Eddies Guitars. I'm trying to give the orignal poster some excellent and hard earned advice here.

But thanks for jumping in there Kap'n! Don't be so quick to discount other's experience and advice next time.

You can find much nicer H-150's than these..but case and point. I recommend staying around 9lb's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heritage-H-150-C...QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/Heritage-H-150-C...QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/Heritage-Les-Pau...QQcmdZViewItem

[Kap'n]

Sorry, thought you said Historic.

Again. The JB has a particular sound that imprints itself upon whatever it's installed in. If it sounds weak, it's not wired correctly or something.

Whether you like the sound or not of the guitar is another matter entirely.

FWIW, the Heritage H-140? H-150? I had was a very nice instrument, but the stock Schallers in it pretty much sucked.

[jamisonst]

Yeah, my point was to find a really good LP first, then put the right pickups in it. Heritage's have more sustain than anything I've ever heard. Blooms into nice musical feedback.

[Gravity Jim]

I still think Kap'n's point is valid.... the answer to the poster's original inquiry is not "Buy a different guitar."

[demioblue]

How does the guitar sound unplugged? It's easy to focus so much on pickups that we miss the boat on the guitar itself.

The guitar is fine. I specifically chose this one out of dozens of edwards available here. This one has a nice hollow ring to it, a good weight balance, and naturally good tone unplugged. The reason I'm asking about balls, is mainly due to the fact that my EBMM 20th Silo has DiMarzio (which I never liked, but these are cool) Virtual PAFs and Virtual HOT PAFs installed, and that thing is WAY more ballsy than my Edwards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem in the edwards. Just looking for something a little different...

The differences here are these:

Silo:
25.5" scale (I suspect this is a main culprit for the difference)
bolt-on
flame maple with alder body, and a HUGE mahogany tone block inside the Alder.
1 piece Maple neck

Edwards:
24.75" scale
set neck
flame maple with mahogany body and neck (RW fretboard)
Long neck tenon.

I've heard that the pots for the Edwards needs changing. Would this be a problem solver? I originally thought the LP was already unnecessary to mod, but after AB-ing the Silo and this, damn!!!

With regards to buying a Gibby. That's really not so much of a problem, but I don't think that's the solution, and buying a guitar at 4 times the price of the edwards and 1/2 the quality. Not to turn this into a Gibby bashing thread, but when Gibson turns out consistent LP standards at the quality of the edwards construction, fit and finish, I'd probably go buy one. But until that happens, I think I'm happier at the price level of an Edwards for an LP.

But that's me...

[demioblue]

Yeah, my point was to find a really good LP first, then put the right pickups in it. Heritage's have more sustain than anything I've ever heard. Blooms into nice musical feedback.

Thanks for the solution, but sustain, and tone isn't a problem with the edwards. and finding a good LP with the little selection I have here is harder than getting another set of Custom Shop 65 pups...

[ziess]

What kind of amp are you playing it through?

Tommy.

[curt1lp]

Check the guitars wiring/grounds/pots etc. Maybe you are losing output somehow?

[demioblue]

What kind of amp are you playing it through?

Tommy.

I USED to play thru a Fender Bronco, and that's when it sounded a bit "no punch". Then I now play thru a Laney VC15, and it's nice and warm... Still no kick though...

[demioblue]

Check the guitars wiring/grounds/pots etc. Maybe you are losing output somehow?

That occurred to me. The wirings are all intact, but maybe it's using lesser components? What can I upgrade to?

[jamisonst]

If the 59 and JB isn't given you enough output than you got issues somewhere. That's why I suggested starting with the guitar itself. If you feel it's up to par then move on down the chain.

You could have a short in the switch or elsewhere. Have you checked the pickups at the leads and at the output jack itself. Are you getting the same (or nearly the same) readings?

Other than that, I'd suggest looking for a new amp or at least retubing.

There's not a whole lot out there that's gonna blow a JB/59 set away if you do indeed find them "weak" as you stated and you are 100% techincal wise.

[curt1lp]

Demio:

If I was replacing, I'd look at changing the input jack and the volume pots.

Cheers,

Don

[demioblue]

Demio:

If I was replacing, I'd look at changing the input jack and the volume pots.

Cheers,

Don

That's what I'm asking for... Thanks Don... What kind of pots should I be looking at?

[demioblue]

If the 59 and JB isn't given you enough output than you got issues somewhere. That's why I suggested starting with the guitar itself. If you feel it's up to par then move on down the chain.

You could have a short in the switch or elsewhere. Have you checked the pickups at the leads and at the output jack itself. Are you getting the same (or nearly the same) readings?

Other than that, I'd suggest looking for a new amp or at least retubing.

There's not a whole lot out there that's gonna blow a JB/59 set away if you do indeed find them "weak" as you stated and you are 100% techincal wise.

Nope... haven't checked the components... that's why I have a feeling the problem might lie there too. But then again, if you listen to the track "School Blues" on my soundclick page, the first 2 solos are using this LP, and then compare that with the EBMM on "Ride With The Magi" or "Enlightenment" and you'll know what I mean. There's tone on that LP, but no punch. The EBMM has everything... And I was using the SAME patch on my PODXTLive for both...

P.S. My amp is brand new... I think I'll stop looking for another one for now... Until I find a nice 6V6 with a 10" minimum speaker amp...

[curt1lp]

That's what I'm asking for... Thanks Don... What kind of pots should I be looking at?

CTS is a good brand.

I personally have steered clear of Gibson brand pots as i was not satisfied with quality after I had used them.

CTS 500k audio taper, plenty on Ebay and other sellers eg Rs Relic sell high quality custom CTS pots (though postage costs to Australia mean't Ebay was a better option for me when I bought pots) If you search you can find more expensive 10% tolerance CTS pots on Ebay so they are guaranteed to be closer to 500k and have a custom audio taper. The standard CTS are good quality though. Not sure if you will need long or short shaft ones. Change one component at a time so that you can hopefully isolate the fault.

For input jack Switchcraft is good.

(You need to have adequate soldering skills if installing the pots yourself otherwise cold solder joints may cause similar problems to what you have already).

Cheers,

Don

[demioblue]

CTS is a good brand.

I personally have steered clear of Gibson brand pots as i was not satisfied with quality after I had used them.

CTS 500k audio taper, plenty on Ebay and other sellers eg Rs Relic sell high quality custom CTS pots (though postage costs to Australia mean't Ebay was a better option for me when I bought pots) If you search you can find more expensive 10% tolerance CTS pots on Ebay so they are guaranteed to be closer to 500k and have a custom audio taper. The standard CTS are good quality though. Not sure if you will need long or short shaft ones. Change one component at a time so that you can hopefully isolate the fault.

For input jack Switchcraft is good.

(You need to have adequate soldering skills if installing the pots yourself otherwise cold solder joints may cause similar problems to what you have already).

Cheers,

Don

We have CTS pots here available, but I've been told that CTS is horrible... any particular model I need to find?

[curt1lp]

Demio: No particular model. CTS is just fine AFAIK. I have replaced many in my guitars.

Hint

search ebay:
CTS 500k Audio Pot +/-10% Tolerance Long Shaft CTS500XL (for gibsons with metal plate)

or short shaft
CTS 500k Audio Pot 10% Tolerance Split Shaft CTS500

just ensure you get the right length shaft for the guitar..

I hope this works, can't guarantee it but I have had a guitar with poor output that improved with vol pot change.

[jamisonst]

Demio:

If I was replacing, I'd look at changing the input jack and the volume pots.

Cheers,

Don

So he hasn't tested anything and we're just gonna randomly start suggesting parts to replace??

Might as well gut it and replace everything then. All four pots, caps, 3-way toggle and output jack.

Of course if you've never done this before and don't know how to trouble shoot, you could end up in worse shape than you are now.

Why not just take it to a tech and have them check it out....shouldn't be much if anything to put a meter on it. I do that for my customers all the time and usually find the problem right away.

[demioblue]

So he hasn't tested anything and we're just gonna randomly start suggesting parts to replace??

Might as well gut it and replace everything then. All four pots, caps, 3-way toggle and output jack.

Of course if you've never done this before and don't know how to trouble shoot, you could end up in worse shape than you are now.

Why not just take it to a tech and have them check it out....shouldn't be much if anything to put a meter on it. I do that for my customers all the time and usually find the problem right away.

You're misreading us. I never said anything was faulty. The guitar works perfectly fine. But what I'm looking for is the difference between a normal capacitor and those made by orange drop, for example... So, to be honest, I'm not sure testing anything would be of that much use, because everything works...

[jamisonst]

You're misreading us. I never said anything was faulty. The guitar works perfectly fine. But what I'm looking for is the difference between a normal capacitor and those made by orange drop, for example... So, to be honest, I'm not sure testing anything would be of that much use, because everything works...

No, I think you're not understanding my point. Just because everything works doesn't mean that you don't have an issue somewhere. And if you happen to discover and fix the issue, you may have all the tone and power you seem to be lacking....going back to your original post and issue.

I've seen 3-way switches partially short out a signal and it really weakened and thined out the pickup signal. It was a pain to find too because I never suspected the cavity to be the problem. I re-wired a couple of switches and they worked outside the guitar. Mount them and they wouuld short out...turns out the problem was shielding paint inside the switch cavity.

There's all kinds of things you can run into that a good tech may be able to find.

New pots and caps are an upgrade and can give you another small bump on the tone meter; but moreover are usually an improvement in control function/interaction. New pots and caps, in and of themselves, are not gonna magically transform your guitar and current pickups.

[jamisonst]

I can't get into the LP forum for some reason. I'm thinking of replacing my pickups in my Edwards LP, and it's currently got Seymour Duncan 59's and JBs... They sound nice, but a bit weak. I'd like something with more balls, but which retains the nice hollow tone from the low output pups.

Any suggestions? how about SD Antiquity?

Antiquities are low output and have weaker A2 mags. They have nowhere near the mids of a JB or 59. Those two are much higher output and aggressive. Pickups with A5 magnets have tighter bass and more punch. So given your issue, Antiquities would be a move in the wrong direction.

Is it possible you're not sure exactly what your looking for and how to descibe it...are you sure you're wanting "more balls"?

[jamisonst]

I've heard that the pots for the Edwards needs changing.

Are they 300k or 500k pots? I lot of guys end up using 250k with the JB.

I had an Edwards once (last year) and it was well put together almost flawless. But it was actually too heavy and very unbalanced, had a very dark tone and I recall the fretboard was very dry and uncomfortable. Low, low action and tiny frets like an Epiphone. I was unimpressed considering all the hype that was in the air. Don't hear a whole lot about them now. But you have to work with whatcha got.

[sting7777]

Pickup height needs to be closer? Burstbucker Pro's if the JB isn't enough? (just a warning that this is based on my paul with BBpro vs. a strat with JB - paul is louder and edgier and handles high gain better).

[sting7777]

Pickup height needs to be closer? Burstbucker Pro's if the JB isn't enough? (just a warning that this is based on my paul with BBpro vs. a strat with JB - paul is louder and edgier and handles high gain better).

Which is odd because the output of a pro is around 8K (half of that of a JB which runs around 16K).

Who knows. I only know that I prefer the sound of the burstbuckers.

[curt1lp]

So he hasn't tested anything and we're just gonna randomly start suggesting parts to replace??

Might as well gut it and replace everything then. All four pots, caps, 3-way toggle and output jack.

Of course if you've never done this before and don't know how to trouble shoot, you could end up in worse shape than you are now.

Why not just take it to a tech and have them check it out....shouldn't be much if anything to put a meter on it. I do that for my customers all the time and usually find the problem right away.

Thats a good point. I suggested this because pots are way cheaper than a tech, or a pickup swap, and replacement is a type of testing, plus you end up with better components even if that wasn't the problem. (I never found a multimeter did much good when I had a similar situation, but that might have been lack of knowledge I guess)

[demioblue]

Is it possible you're not sure exactly what your looking for and how to descibe it...are you sure you're wanting "more balls"?

That is possible... However, I am sure that I want it to sound more similar to my EBMM, which has a more colourful tone. This set of SD pickups seems to be quite bland...

[demioblue]

Are they 300k or 500k pots? I lot of guys end up using 250k with the JB.

That's the thing. I suspect they're 300k or something. But definately less than 500k.

I have 0% complaints about the Edwards guitar itself. The construction is flawless, frets are fine, inlays are clean. The only thing I think might need tweaking are the electronics, because I remember my band's guitarist having to fiddle with the jack once because it came loose easily. That was MY guitar. I hardly play it though. More of a strat profile guy...

[demioblue]

Which is odd because the output of a pro is around 8K (half of that of a JB which runs around 16K).

Who knows. I only know that I prefer the sound of the burstbuckers.

Honestly, I've tried the burstbuckers in a LP standard, and I LIKE!!!!!! Problem is, I don't know what I was trying. Pros? or non-pros?

[jamisonst]

Theres A LOT of humbuckers out there, and the boutique one's aren't cheap.

If you stock with Duncan, you can exchange them if you don't like the first set. I have not tried the Antiquities, but I had a set of the Seth Lovers and there sounded good just a little on the thin side.

My favorite Duncans is the Slash set; the Alnico II Pro's.

Other than that, Wolfetone, WCR, Lollar Imperials, etc. And then there's the Sheptones (he sells these on Ebay from time to time for $179). See if you like these clips:

http://sheptone.com/Media/Hotel%20California.mp3

http://sheptone.com/Media/don.mp3

[sokinwet]

I'm assuming that the pups didn't come stock on the Edwards? I would check the pot & cap values and the pups if you end up disconnecting your wiring harness. Check the harness for proper wiring ...50's , modern, etc. Does the SD site show any recommended pot values for these pups? Standard LP pots are 500 K , caps @ .022 bridge and .022 or .015 for neck. You can buy some orange drops caps for cheap and do some testing. CTS pots are in most of the "kits" and are available "stock" but can vary from the rated value so meter them before you install for best results or buy from someplace like RS who measures them.

I don't believe the Edwards is the problem; maybe the "tone" might not suit some, but it shouldn't effect the "punch" IMO. String height as someone mentioned; buckers can usually be much closer than single coils. Is this a new guitar to you that might need some amp adjustments? TURN IT UP! When I switch between my lester and tele it requires major amp setting changes! Good Luck!

[NDRU]

Honestly, I've tried the burstbuckers in a LP standard, and I LIKE!!!!!! Problem is, I don't know what I was trying. Pros? or non-pros?

I believe those are the pros--Alnico 5, wax potted

The Custom 59 (?) comes with the regular burstbuckers--Alnico 2, not potted

I just bought a set of the regulars 2&3, and am psyched to put them in!