Trade my Hot Rod Deville for ´85 Vox AC30?

[steinar29]

Hi!

I made a thread here a couple of weeks ago about a Deville Hot Rod 4x10 I just got. I mentioned that I thought the tone was rather hard and cold for my taste.
I guess this was a case of buying prematurely. I read lots of great things about the clean tone of the deville on harmony central, but opinions differ I guess. I also see on this forum that there are a lot of unhappy deville hot rod users here, so here's my situation.

I just got a good offer on a used 1985 model Vox AC30 (old version w/ better build quality and sound), and I could trade in my HRDv for the same amount of money I bought it for - as part of the deal.
I already did one poor purchase, and I'm hesitant to rush into another, as this is quite a bit more expensive (slighty more than twice the price of the used hot rod).
I tested it with my guitar, and the tone...wow..
Just what I want.

Anything I should be aware of - any better choices etc.?

Sorry if this is off-topic, but you guys seem like a very knowledgable bunch. I will be using my Digitech SGS-2112 as a tube preamp for distortion tones. I just thought the AC30 sounded so warm and creamy, but airy and clear with the brilliant channel. Way better for my kind of style was my reaction when I tried it..
I like to have a warm distortion sound, that is smooth and doesn't sound sharp/icepicky..duh whatever..

Any advice, should I just go for it?
Sorry if I'm asking silly questions here, just started up with guitars again after many years, and my knowledge of amps is minimal.
Thanks for reading. Really appreciate any comment or advice!

Best regards,
Steinar

[Rickenjangle]

A couple of issues are in play, here...

First, the DeVille might sound hard and cold because of being improperly biased. Then again, it might just be the way the amp sounds. I can't speak to that, I had the HR Deluxe.

Second, you might want to check out who manufactured the Vox. There have been numerous reissues out there, and not all of them were ultra-reliable. People around here seem to like the newer Custom Classics, but it's too early to really know if they're going to be reliable in the long run. I myself have used a late-'90's AC15 with absolutely no problems until just last week when the amp started blowing fuses. But, it's probably something like a bad Rectifier tube, I don't know yet.

I know the '80's Voxes were reissued by a different manufacturer and build quality was spotty. However, I remember playing one of those AC30's and it sounded good.

All other things being equal (vis a vis the build quality), the AC30 is a huge leap up in terms of tone. If I were in your shoes, I'd give it some serious thought...

JMHO.

[curtisstetka]

Do it. It may seem expensive now but in a year, five years, the rest of your playing days you'll be enjoying that amp and producing the sound you want to hear.

[Rickenjangle]

By the way, Steinar, if I were you, (If I were getting the AC30), I would get a good A/B/Y box and run the guitar direct into one channel of the amp for my clean sound, and then through the DigiTech into a different channel. That way, your signal path can be totally analog unless you're using the FX processor/preamp.

[steinar29]

Thanks for the comments so far. I have to say the Vox had a much more pleasant and warm sound to it (to my ears), so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go for it. The amp seemed to be in fine form, even though it's 23 years old..It should be okey, I would think..? The A/B box idea was very good, I will definately do that!
Wasn't Marshall building Vox amps for a while?

As I understand it, the older Vox amps (this one included) have better build quality than the newer ones, because it's not pc boards and chips, but jacks/cables carrying the audio signal through the amp.
Thanks!

[yankeerob]

At the end of the day your ears are gonna have to make the decision - and at least the AC30 was point to point wired on turret boards - very flimsy turret boards - but at least it wasn't a PCB. They've been made by a number of different people over the years - and because of the way they're constructed - one individual may have been better at putting them together than the person sat next to him or her - hence there has never been a consistently better year to buy them than another as such - if you saw the inside of it you'd see why. Any number of manufacturers made the components - so the different companies who brought them to market have a lot less bearing on when good ones were made or otherwise.

At the risk of upsetting proud owners and advocates of this amp - it should also be noted that it was never designed for amplifying guitars - which is why the controls are the right way up if you're behind it - it was built for amplifying accordions - hence the AC prefix.

I've always found them a bit dull personally - but there's every possibility that the half dozen or so that I've ever tried were lesser examples - no two ever sounded the same to me. I did - however - plug a guitar with humbuckers into a 60's top boost model that had it's moments - but apart from that I've never been impressed with them.

But it's how the sound of it makes you feel that counts - Ritchie Blackmore recorded Machine Head with one, Brian May used one (well several) for everything he ever did - albeit with some sort of pedal to get that distortion, Rory Gallagher got his signature tone with one - goodness knows how many others - but it's got to have some emotional effect on you - which the HRDv clearly doesn't and I'd be looking to get rid of mine if it still worked and I'd read the sort of stuff that even I've now contributed to about them - but it did do what I wanted while it was working - which is why I chose it - just so happens that I - like many others - came up short in the end. I would say that at least there's a far greater chance of getting an AC30 fixed if it broke down - something that cannot always be said of the HRDv.

You could also take the cynical point of view that an AC30 made in 1985'll be vintage in another few years and look at it as an investment of sorts.

I've not said anything that isn't true of the AC30 here - it may not be positive - but it's honest. I'm not trying to bring you down about it - if it makes you feel good - go for it. It might be a great decision. I just think it's a bad idea to go on someone else's word alone - unless you really dig that amp - then you should go for it

[steinar29]

Thanks yankeerob. I can understand what you mean. It has a rather mellow, soft tone compared to a fender. The brilliant channel was more open and clear though. I see this as a "base-amp" which will supply a warm but defined sound for my other overdrive/distortion effects/preamp.
However, I didn't try it out that long - so I need to try it out again with my digitech preamp to test it further.

I've seen some different versions. AC30 warfdale/AC30 blue - the new model of the AC30 made in china. Is this something I should be aware of with the ´85 version? If there is a considerable difference in sound quality - is it possible to change speakers fairly easily?
The guy who had the AC30 said the old one that he has sound better than the new ones, because it has "point-to-point" construction without PCB boards etc.. I've read some people say that the newer ones are the best AC30 made... don't know what to think really - as this old/used AC30 is more expensive than the new AC30 with the cheapest speaker option.

[yankeerob]

It's definitely gonna be better than the new ones if they're PCB - and the spkrs are pretty easy to change... and it'd be best to try it with the Digitech for sure

[Rickenjangle]

I doubt that the '85 edition had turret board construction. The Korg/Marshall period came later; my late- '90's AC15 is from that era.

PCB amps don't sound bad, but their reliability is suspect. However, if you're anal about that kind of thing, I know they offer a handwired AC30 - but it's not the same as the classic AC30 circuit; rather, it's more like the AC15 with a 30-watt power section.

I think you'll like the AC30 much better than the HRDv...as far as speakers, they came with Bulldogs or Blues back in those days; Wharfdales are the cheaper ones on the new CC's.

If it doesn't have Blues, and you absolutely MUST have the AlNiCo blue sound, Ted Weber offers some great aftermarket speakers for much less than the $200 apiece Vox blues.

My gut feeling - if you like the amp, get it...it's lasted more than 20 years, which is more than people will likely be able to say for the HRD series...

[djinn1973]

I tested it with my guitar, and the tone...wow..
Just what I want.

I think that about sums it up.

[steinar29]

Hehe, djiinn.. You said it.. :)
However, how will this ´85 AC30 compare in sound with the new AC30CC with the blue speakers?
Sorry for all these questions, but the new AC30CC blue version doesn't cost that much more.
I've read some state that the 80s AC30 sounds bad (for an AC30), so I don't know what to think. I'm a bit hesitant to buy such an expensive used Vox amp, if it's soundwise inferior to others/new CC models (with the blue speakers).
Thanks for all your help so far! :)

[yankeerob]

Why not go into a music shop with a new one and try it? That's the only way t find out as far as I can see...

[steinar29]

Unfortunately that's not possible, as I live in a rather small Norwegian city for the time being..
Anyway, thanks guys for all the comments and advices so far. You've been very helpful! :)

[yankeerob]

Why the blue face? - BTW - your HRDv may be set up for 230V operation like mine was - it causes everything to run hotter than it should - if you have a look at CP4 & CP10 - if the white wire with a black stripe is connected to CP4 and the black wire connected to CP10then it's been set up wrong like mine was - they should be the other way around if Norway has 240V mains

[steinar29]

Excellent advice, I will check this. I thought I read about this somewhere else too.

I will pass on the ´85 vox for now, and instead save up for an AC30CCX instead.
In the mean time, I'll try to improve on my hot rod. I bought a multimeter, and will try to bias the hot rod when I get back to Trondheim where I study.
BTW: How do I use the voltmeter? There so many different settings to choose between. VDC, VAC, ADC etc.., and each of these has different number settings.
Thanks for keeping up with all my questions.

[steinar29]

I've read several people now state that the 80s era AC30 are not handwired point-to-point but PCB, and that Rose-Morris used substandard components in the Vox in this period to cut costs.
I did noticed that the normal channel lacked clarity, a bit muffled maybe- but then again the brilliant channel sounded much better. I didn't test it very long though, and I hardly have any experience with Vox.
The AC30 is more than twice the price of the HRD, so it's a steep price for a used amp - especially if it's an inferior rendition. I will talk some more with the salesman tomorrow.
He made a big point of this AC30 being point-to-point wired, and sounding better than the new models (CCs). This seems to contrast with most of the feedback I've gotten from other forums, maybe I got the year wrong or something. I will check further...
Thanks!

[ziess]

Get some pictures of the insides then.

FWIW, with some of my guitars the Normal channel on my Bassman sounds a bit muffled, with some of them it's great. It really depends on the guitar you're playing.

Also, don't be totally put off if it doesn't sound great with your preamp thing. Those things don't sound the same through all amps. You might find an AC30 would be better with a Tubescreamer or something though YMMV.

Tommy.

[toobalicious]

regardless of everything above, i read this:

I tested it with my guitar, and the tone...wow..
Just what I want.

i think you might have answered your own question.

do you use the preamp all of the time, or just for effects? i dont like time-based effects in front of an overdriven amp, especially reverb. just yuck. are you sure that is the right kind of amp for you? will the statement quoted above be true for all of your applications? i.e. do you play in a band. if you want it to be clean the way most use for a preamp you might run out of volume rather quickly when dude starts on the drums. but i am not a preamp sort of guy, so what do i know.

honestly, i have never really played an AC-30 for long enough or in a private enough setting to really get to know the amp. apples to oranges, but i once had a 50 watt non-switching JCM800 2x12 (now thats a mouthful). very much a one or two trick pony, but those tricks were pretty killer. i have heard at least one person describe the AC-30 in that way.
a

[steinar29]

Thanks again for the comments, you make some excellent points.
I will take pictures of the AC30 tomorrow (back, inside), and I will test it with my 2112 (I basically use it for it's overdrive/distortion - and some chorus) - on other amps it has sounded great.
I asked at a Vox forum, and a couple of guys claimed to have some early/mid AC30 that was very good, and told me to take pictures of the open back so they could determine the build/sound quality. Sounds promising.

Thanks guys! :)

[steinar29]

Hi again!

I was at the store and tested the AC30.
It was an AC30 silver jubilee, made in 85-05. Regular speakers, not blue.
It was PCB, and the card at the tag said "AF55".
I guess this is not one of the good ones?

I played with my guitar and 2112 w/distortion through the brilliant channel, and I thought the sound was very good. I also tested a Blues Deville (same clean sound as my Hot Rod Deville), and I can't believe I bought that amp untested with my SGS-2112.
The AC30 had a warm and round tone, while the Hot Rod was harsh and cold with a boomy bass. Clean, it sounded great though.
Sigh...
If this is one of the inferior AC30, then I'm sure the good ones will sound great. :)

I did take a picture, but for some reason I can't send it from my phone to my email address..

Any comments about this model, should I avoid it?
Thanks!

[Rickenjangle]

Ding ding ding ding...Once again, Uncle Fezzter hits the nail on the head. Just get it...

Especially since you get to get out of the HRDv deal without losing your shirt!

[rudutch]

I would do quickly

[elicross]

Do a little research online (fleabay and such) and make sure you're getting a good deal, then go for it. If you like the way it sounds and you can afford the trade, jump!

[cooltone]

in addition to sounding like ass

Fezz, that line never gets old...

[steinar29]

You guys make some very good points, but the 80s AC30s gets a lot of abuse on the various forums I asked about this. The thing is this used AC30 (with regular speakers - not blues) will cost more than a new AC30CC with wharfdales, even though it doesn't sound as good (it seems). This can't possibly be a good buy. Then I'd rather get a new AC30CC and upgrade the speakers later, when I can afford it. I think I'll try to sell my amp again privately, and then go for a new AC30CC, and get the blues added later.
Will this be much more expensive than getting the AC30CCX right away?
I really appreciate your help. Can't thank you guys enough! :)

[steinar29]

Hi guys. I just wanted to thank you all for keeping up with my questions. I really appreciate the help!
I tried the AC30 again today, and you're right. It wasn't a very good amp. With distortion I got a very nice smooth tone, but with clean sound it revealed itself. A rather dull, muffled sound. I tried an Engl Screamer 50. Great clean, but too harsh with overdrive.
I'm gonna try the Engl Classic Combo 2x12 later this week. It sounds very promising. I'll probably go for that one (and spend way much more money that I'd had initially though - that's what usually happens.. )

I kinda went blind on the AC30 for a while there, and couldn't see any other options.
Again, thanks for all the help!

[Victorilux]

If your going to pay 1000$+ for an amp, I would not go with a PCB construction. PCB is for reduced costs, there is no reason to charge that much money for a PCB amp, reduced costs usually means everything else is cheap too...speakers, transformers, tubes, pots, switches.

The best "Vox type" amps WERE made by Matchless, (before Mark left of course). They took the usually trouble prone AC30's and made them beefier sounding, more versatile, and reliable. There's a reason a Boutique amps costs so much, they are usually made of better parts, and will survive like the old Fender amps have. I never thought I'd buy a boutiqe amp, I've played everything new and the only stuff that kicks ass is hella expensive Name Brand stuff, and boutique stuff. The boutique stuff is usually taylor made for what you want. Check out Dr Z amps ...not my rag but....WHOA! For the money, impossible to beat!

Try gettings some better tubes for your current amp. Fresh bottles can make a big difference! Try a couple different kinds of 12AX7's in the first stage, you might be suprised in the difference. If you want a "cleaner" sound, a lower gain 12AU7 tube might float your boat too! It would also act as a buffer to calm down the digitech preamp that is probably saturating it....the disadvantage would be the lower overall output when the digitech is off. Chinese and russian tubes suck, try some JJ's or NOS stuff. Don't know were the new "mullard" Groove tubes 12ax7's are made, but they sound pretty nifty.

Get an amp that sounds good with you guitar(s). Pedals are cheap and easy to change....

I'm weary of ANYTHING with plastic inputs....You were too cheap to spend the extra dollar on something that I can see, and I will be using everytime I plug in. What kind of CHEAP CRAP is inside!?! The Hot Rod series is a kickass little line, but lack build quality. For the money the amps do sound great though! Same for the new AC30CC, love the sound, but I don't trust whats inside.

[Rickenjangle]

FWIW, I've had more PTP amps with problems than I've had problems with PCB amps...

I have had my AC15 now for about 8 years, and I bought it new-used condition, and it's now in the shop for the first time ever. I'd say that's a pretty good track record for an amp that's over 10 years old...and, if I am right in my thinking, it's probably something simple like a bad recto tube. When I took the chassis out last week, the amp was clean, well-laid out, and nothing looked burned or corroded or oxidized...I think that PCB amps get a bad rap, that's all I'm sayin'.

[Victorilux]

Its not there is anything wrong with PCB. Its just usually used with multiple cost cutting measures.

Good components of an amp in conjuciton with a good PCB can make a pretty good amp. Mesa and Rivera being the prime examples, BUT by the time you get to thier price tags, your in boutique/PTP territory anyway.

[steinar29]

Hi! Ok, last post...I promise.. :)
Just bought a Engl Classic Combo 212 with greenback speakers.
Holy cow! Now we're talking tone. :)
This thing craps all over the ´85 vox I tried. I can definately see a use for the HRDv, but the Engl amp is pure heaven for me.
The 3-way EQ was about the smoothest and musical I've heard. Both clean and overdrive (from my 2112) sounded fantastic.
I really recommend this amp. Very smooth and warm, but can also bite if you want it too.
Thanks guys! :)

[Victorilux]

Post all you want, it why the Forum is here!

The Engl looks interesting, being made in Germany, and not being a value brand, I expect the quality is top notch, and you won't have too many problems with the PCB.

My old Hughes and Kettner is soild state+12AX7, and built like a f***in tank. The clean channel is pretty cool, I imagine it'll be around forever(or until I trade it). It doesn't sound half as good as a blackface twin, but it costs less than 1/20th of one.

[steinar29]

Cool, victorilux. I just thought I had pestered this forum with far too many questions in this thread. :)
It's funny, I can't hardly find any reviews or info on the classic combo 212 amp on the net. It must be a new model.
Anyway, it does sound great to me. It takes both distortion and clean from my 2112 perfectly, in terms of overdrive I will obviously use the Classic Combo for that. :)
The amp also looks killer..very retro..and built to last.