What's wrong with my E string?

[refriedwhiskey]

This is pretty annoying. Any time I use the vibrato on my Strat, the low E ends up sharp. If I really drop the pitch with the vibrato, it comes up a full half-step sharp; it's almost a perfect F. When I grab the string and pull on it, it'll drop back down to E, but that's not exactly ideal. And it's happened with the last two low E strings I've had on this guitar...I believe they were even different brands.

I assume the nut is grabbing it, taking up the slack when I lower the pitch, then not giving it back when I bring the pitch back up again. But I always put some of that Big Bends Nut Sauce on the nut when I put the strings on. Could anything else be causing this? The bridge?

Would it help if the string didn't break quite so sharply over the nut? Maybe I should try winding the next E string I put on upwards on the tuner shaft instead of down.

Maybe I need a new nut. In addition to this tremolo problem, I'm still having a problem with notes fretted on the first few frets being too sharp, no matter how gently I fret them. There's a luthier in the next town over; an authorized Fender service guy. I might just take this guitar to him and have him install and cut a new nut.

If I did that, what should I go for? Bone? Graphite? How much does a new nut cost, generally speaking?

[boobtube21]

Definitely sounds like the nut. Well, either it needs the slot cut a little wider and deeper, or the angle of the string break, but I'm not sure the latter would actually cause this problem.

I'm getting new frets and a new bone nut put on one of my guitars right now, and was told the nut would be $20, cut and everything. Not sure if this reflects most shop prices, or if I got a deal with the refret.

The sharp notes on the first few frets sounds like the slots in the nut aren't cut deep enough. May as well get a bone or graphite nut while you're getting it cut, I would think.

[Mesotech]

Certainly sounds like the nut on all accounts. I've seen many new guitars leave the factory with the nut barely scored enough to keep the string from sliding up or down, espicially new Gibsons. I tend to prefer it this way, because then I can have the nut cut the way I prefer instead of needing a new nut right out of the blocks. I can understand the other end of the preference spectrum too, where you purchase a guitar with good hard earned money and you expect it to be perfect from day one. I just think it is a little unreasonable to expect a factory (or even a custom shop) to have ESP and know what I like or don't without even knowing who I am, or that I plan to buy 'that' guitar.

I'd recommend taking the guitar to a good tech and have him do a proper 'first time' setup on it. After that, you can maintain it easily enough yourself.

[refriedwhiskey]

I just think it is a little unreasonable to expect a factory (or even a custom shop) to have ESP and know what I like or don't without even knowing who I am, or that I plan to buy 'that' guitar.

Sure, but you'd think a factory would at least know I'd like to stay in tune while using the trem or playing open chords.

[Offshore Angler]

Sure, but you'd think a factory would at least know I'd like to stay in tune while using the trem or playing open chords.

Well, you gotta remember, these are mass-produced guitars. There's always going to be a little tweaking to get them up to Custom Shop standards.

Might wanna try just getting a guitar that was designed for dive-bombs with a locking nut and a Floyd Rose. If you are coming up a half-tone sharp you are way exceeding the design's capabilities. It was designed to be a trem, not a pitch shifter! The stock units just can't handle those types of excursions.

[refriedwhiskey]

Might wanna try just getting a guitar that was designed for dive-bombs with a locking nut and a Floyd Rose. If you are coming up a half-tone sharp you are way exceeding the design's capabilities.

No, OSA, I'm really not. I'm not dive-bombing here. It doesn't take nearly that much to put my E string out of tune. If I was doing Floyd Rose-level, hair-band, whammy-bar pitch changes with this guitar, I wouldn't expect it to stay in tune. I asked for advice because it's not staying in tune under normal use.

[Offshore Angler]

refried, I'm not sure I understand then. Do you mean you drop more than a halftone and it stays there, or are you going farther? Try it unplugged, if it's the nut you'll hear a ping when the string slips. What are you doing to prestretch?

[refriedwhiskey]

I'm saying if I drop the E as little as a whole step, to a D, it comes up sharp when I return the trem to normal. This happens consistently and seems to have no connection to the age or brand of string. My "prestretch" routine is based on the one Ted Nugent uses, according to an old GP I read back in the 1980s: "Stretch the fuck out of them."

[Mesotech]

The E string catching in the nut typically means the nut is pinching it. You could always file the slot larger with a set of nut files, and given the other issues you're having is why I suggested a pro setup. If you want to stop the pinching, without going the full setup route, then try taking an old E string (preferably one gauge larger than what you intend to use) and pass it back and forth through the slot multiple times, using the string as a makeshift file. When doing this, go slow and make sure you're holding the string level so that you're only enlarging the slot slightly.

The thing that typically causes the nut to pinch isn't the width of the slot being too narrow, it's the shape of the slot. A proper slot should be half round, and a pinching slot will generally be V shaped. Grab a magnifying glass if you need one and just take a look at what you have, then see what it might take to clean it up.

[refriedwhiskey]

Yeah, Meso, I think I'm just going to take it to that guy I mentioned in the first post and have a whole new nut put in. This guitar's never had a professional setup anyway. So I'll have him install a new nut, cut it properly, and set the action and intonation while he's at it. Should be worth it.

Do you guys think I can have him cut it so it works well with my current .009-.042 strings, but would also work well when I'm ready to go up to, say, .010-.046?

[Mesotech]

I would have him set it up for the 10-46 set, then put the smaller strings back on if you think you want to use them, but try the 10-46 first. You might be suprized.

As for the new nut, unless the original nut is cut too low, or is cut so poorly that it can't be shaped properly, then save the extra money and leave the original on. Just have him dress it for the strings. This is presuming that the original nut was only rough cut from the factory and waiting for a proper fitting by the tech.

[refriedwhiskey]

I guess I could have him use the existing nut, but I was thinking I could use this as an opportunity/excuse to go ahead and have a better nut put on.

If I was going to do that...what would be a good material? Bone? Graphite? Brass? I'm open to all opinions.

[Mesotech]

There's nothing wrong with bone. Graphite nuts are OK as well, but I'd stay away from brass. My thinking is that with bone, it can be repaired if the slot is cut a little low, a little bone dust and super glue mixed together can fill the slot and it can be cut again. Graphite can be repaired as well, but not as easily. Brass can't be.

Then there's the asthetics, bone will look more natural, graphite looks acceptable, and brass just looks wrong to me.

I had a brass nut on a guitar back in the 70's. It seemed the cool thing to do. In retrospect it wasn't. Back then it seems the theory was heavier is better, bigger headstocks, and brass nuts give better sustain. Today we all know better.

Functionality wise, bone will survice the guitar a nice long time and if properly cut will allow stabile use of the tremelo. Graphite would better serve the moderate dive bombing thing. Brass tends to wear sharp over time and eat strings unless you don't use the tremelo at all.

The composite materials used today in most production guitars are a lot like bone, and will also provide good service.

[refriedwhiskey]

Thanks. I'll probably just go with bone or whatever the synthetic version is. Graphite would look okay since I have a rosewood fretboard, but I don't know that I need it as long as the nut's cut right.

[Hobo]

I have a factory installed roller nut on my 89 strat plus deluxe. It also has a hipshot tremsetter. I can dive bomb with it and it comes back in tune every time.

Maybe a roller nut is worth looking at.

[pseudocat]

If your nut is pretty good overall, and you don't want to either replace it or fiddle with it too much, a little graphite powder (like you spray in a lock) can do the trick. Wind the string almost to tension, pick it up out of the slot, and spray a tiny amount into the slot. Then tune up, and wipe away any excess graphite. It's best if you keep it off your tuner capstans.

This isn't the most elegant fix, but it can help.

[refriedwhiskey]

Thanks. I put a good bit of Big Bends Nut Sauce (snicker) on the saddles, string trees, and nut when I put these strings on, but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick for my low E. This may be a situation lubrication (snicker) won't fix.

Anyway, it's bugging me that my open chords don't sound right, and that's likely a problem with the nut, too -- so I'm pretty determined to have it replaced or at least properly cut. Doesn't look like a new nut costs very much, if MF is any indication. I just wish I had more than one axe, so I wouldn't be without a guitar if I have to leave this one with the luthier.

Between the new pups and electronics and a new nut, this Squier might just become a pretty nice guitar. Maybe I'll replace the tuners someday, too. And the neck. And the body. And the pickguard. If I replaced them all with Fender parts, I'd have one heck of a Squier!

[Tonedog]

Thanks. I'll probably just go with bone or whatever the synthetic version is. Graphite would look okay since I have a rosewood fretboard, but I don't know that I need it as long as the nut's cut right.

I'd just go with bone. The cost of the material is not much and bone is easy to work with.

You may just be able to have your tech clean up the nut slots and be in good shape.

[pseudocat]

Thanks. I put a good bit of Big Bends Nut Sauce (snicker) on the saddles, string trees, and nut when I put these strings on, but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick for my low E. This may be a situation lubrication (snicker) won't fix.

I've had a lot better luck with dry graphite. YMMV, of course.