Affordable Les Paul-type guitar?

[refriedwhiskey]

Hey, y'all.

I notice that even though this is a Fender board, we've got a lot of posters here who appreciate Gibsons, too.

So I thought I'd pose this question -- and I hope this is the right forum for it: Can you recommend a good, affordable Les Paul-type guitar?

By "affordable," I mean less than a grand. And by "Les Paul-type," I mean basically any solid-body guitar with a mahogany body (preferably thick), a maple top (preferably not just a veneer), a set neck, a flat-radius fretboard, and two warm humbuckers.

Les Paul-style tone, playability and sustain are the key goals. Pretty would be nice, too, like a figured, carved top and a nifty finish.

I've mostly been looking at the ESP EC-1000, the Ibanez ARX300CRS, and Hamer's non-U.S.-made Archtop Quilt-Top.

That's the basic idea. Something that will approximate the sound and feel of the 1982 Gibson LP Custom I used to have -- without making this living-room guitar hobbyist feel too guilty about spending the money.

[refriedwhiskey]

Geez, look at those prices. They certainly look sharp, and the prices are certainly right. Are they good? Would they need much work?

[Wilko]

You can get a used American Made Gibson Les Paul Studio for well under a grand.

It's a standard with some cosmetic differences:
Decal logo instead of MOP
No binding

[hudpucker]

Used USA Hamer Special FM or Studio. Just try and beat that for the money....


The only caveat is that, being a double-cut, they're tonally between an SG and a LP, IMO.

[refriedwhiskey]

Used Gibsons are definitely on my radar. I just find it kind of depressing that, back in 1982, I could afford a brand-new LP Custom after a summer of working my ass off at Pizza Hut -- and in 2007, I have to look at used LP Studios if I want an actual Gibson LP.

It makes me mad. I feel like Gibson has deliberately priced their best guitars (hell, almost all of their guitars) out of reach of the average amateur player. It pisses me off that a dedicated high school kid could afford Gibson's best Les Paul 25 years ago, and yet today the money I paid for that Custom wouldn't even buy Gibson's cheapest carved-top LP. Should Les Pauls really have gone up 500 percent in price in that time? Are they 500 percent better than they were in 1982? Are they even as good as they were in 1982?

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'm not sure my resentment toward Gibson's pricing would let me buy a new Les Paul, even if I could afford to buy three Customs without blinking.

I feel pretty much the same about Epiphone; it's hard for me to imagine paying Gibson for one of their budget-line guitars when I feel like I should be able to afford one of their best.

Eh. Never mind. Back to the recommendations, I hope. I'd love to know more about these Agile guitars from someone who's played 'em. I'm also still hoping to hear from someone who might've played one of those guitarfetish.com Xaviere LP copies, even though they're out of stock right now on the model and finish I'd want.

[refriedwhiskey]

Used USA Hamer Special FM or Studio. Just try and beat that for the money....


The only caveat is that, being a double-cut, they're tonally between an SG and a LP, IMO.

I could live with that. And I've always loved Hamers. They're beautiful. But they're so expensive now...can you really find a good used one for less than a grand?

[Wilko]

Oh yeah! Hamers.

Around here they go for about 500 used for a flamed carved standard. (they don't show up a lot, but when they do, they're well under a grand.)

[hudpucker]

Just some examples (no affiliation):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hamer-Studio_W0Q...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1994-Hamer-USA-S...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/HAMER-SPECIAL-US...QQcmdZViewItem

[refriedwhiskey]

Thanks, hud.

Those links are definitely food for thought. I might have to watch eBay for some used Hamers. I have to remind myself I've got a good guitar now, and if I can't afford a brand-new awesome guitar, I can afford to wait until I find the right used awesome guitar.

I'm still open to further recommendations, though.

[JAM]

A close friend bought one of the ESP models for his son similar to the one you linked to from MF. I set it up for him and was real impressed at the workmanship. Wouldn't mind having one myself.

[refriedwhiskey]

Yeah, those are pretty attractive. I was afraid of the ESP rep as a metal guitar company, but apparently some of the EC-1000s have Duncan Jazz and 59 pups at the neck and bridge. (And the models that have those pickups -- as opposed to hot EMGs -- are also the prettiest models. )

[FrankJohnson]

I bought my Agile when the 3000 series just came out.....I have friends with the newer 3000 series and HB's...(mine is w/P90's) - really nice.

If you wanted to keep it under a grand but didn't mind going over $500....I would hit their SD series.....of course that would be if I could play worth a damn too......(Oh...I see they are now the 4000 series....)

so......$700, a case ($60)....shipping (maybe $30)......under $800 shipped in a case????

I was offered $500 for mine, at a gig a friend was playing it at, but it is one of those that I feel has "it" for me.......(it makes me suck not as bad)

[curtisstetka]

My personal experience with Ibanez has been very good. I was considering a Gibson not too long ago. I was also in the sub-grand range and saw that I could get something with "Gibson" on the headstock but it would be stripped-down, no frills, plain (ugly), and so on.

I eventually got an Ibanez AS83 for a super duper price on ebay. I paid a couple bucks for a few hardware and electronics upgrades and still came out far under what I would have paid for Gibson or even higher grade Epiphone. I'm done lusting after a Gibson too. Like you said, if money was no object, sure, I'd get one. But you certainly get more guitar for your money with one of the overseas models.

[cre2403]

honestly, there's nothing wrong with the epiphone les paul. they're made on CNC machinery in Korea, and in my estimation they are every bit as good as the gibson's.

The problem is not gibson sticking it to ya, its the good ole USA labor market pricing most of our made-in-america instruments out of range.

I've got a 95 epiphone LP100 and it sounds every bit as good as the gibson, set up is perfect, and it plays like a dream. Its made out of the same tone wood.......costs a fraction of the gibson. what's the problem?

[Kap'n]

Rickenjangle just bought a groovy ESP. I haven't played one, but folks seem to dig them.

To me, the LP sound is a big chunk of mahogany glued to a big chunk of maple, with a 24 3/4" scale and set neck. Take away any of those, and you ain't in the territory anymore.

My drummer has a pretty groovy Epi LP plaintop. I should do a side-by-side with my standard. I'd bet at least 2/3 of the difference is just electronics.

[FrankJohnson]

Just curious -
Refried whiskey.....where are you located?

(If close enough, I would offer to catch up and let you try mine instead of taking someone elses opinion)

[Don]

I was in the marked a year or so ago for an approx. $500 Les Paul style guitar.
I had an Epi LP Standard years ago and it just wasn't the same, even when I upgraded the electronics.
I tried several Les Paul guitars in the price range, and, although I liked them, they just weren't quite right.

I ended up spending a little more than twice what I had originally planned to spend and bought a used Gibson Gary Moore Signature Les Paul in excellent condition. I like the flame maple top, the fact that there's no mystry wood used and that the electronics were half decent quality.

It has become my main guitar over the past year and it has actually increased in value. It's almost like playing for free.

[rudutch]

Tokai
Burny
Orville (Gibson Japan)
edwards

all make copys that re rumored to be nice

[rudutch]

Oops,
Epiphone Elitist - also rumored to be very nice

http://www.epiphone.com/elitist/standardplus.htm

[cdw2000]

A friend of mine is into collecting guitars. He bought a Gibson Les Paul Reissue (I forget which year) for $3,800. I took my $399 (B-stock, slight blemish) 2001 Epiphone LP over to his house to compare.

The Gibson had a slightly sweeter tone and slightly better action, but not 10x the price worth. All-in-all I went home feeling pretty good about my Epiphone. To be fair and honest - I did sand down the nut on it, since the factory setting is a little high. The guitar has stock hardware and pickups though and compared very well to the Gibson.

After 2000, they upgraded the hardware and pickups on the Epiphones, a big improvement in my opinion. Interestingly my Epiphone has "Gibson" imprinted on the truss rod cover. The current models do not.

See my avatar for a cropped view of my Epi.

[Porto Leone]

the bad thing with epiphone is that the body is not mahogany, but mahogany+alder (i dunno about the Elitist series) and the maple caps are not very thick.

i 'd recommend the Tradition Guitars S-2000 (made in Korea) or the cheaper S-20 (made in Indonesia). Both set-neck with solid mahogany bodies and 5/8" maple tops.

The doublecut Ibanez AR-300 (made in Korea) is great also.

[refriedwhiskey]

Thanks for all the opinions, everybody.

Frank, I'm in South Carolina. Where are you?

It's encouraging to hear from somebody out there who's got one of those Agiles and likes it.

[Wilko]

The only place I read bad about Agiles is our sister forum-the LPF.

[refriedwhiskey]

What were the negatives? Do you recall?

I thought about posting my question over there, but they don't even have a "Clone Zone"-type forum, so I was afraid the philosophy over there might be "If it ain't Gibson, it's crap."

I have to admit, I keep going back to that rondomusic site and looking at the Agiles. In addition to their sweet-looking LP copies, they've got some PRS copies that look pretty nice. And they've got ash Strat and Tele copies that make me drool.

[Wilko]

The only negatives were that they weren't Gibson Les Pauls.

You can post about Agiles in the paid backstage area. The rest of the forum is either Gibson Les Pauls or "other Gibsons"

[refriedwhiskey]

Heh. I like this place better.

[Kap'n]

I show up at LPF from time to time, and while they do some very interesting work (x-rays, for example), a lot of it is obsessive screw counting. And a lot of the amp stuff seems more concerned about collectability/rarity than actual sound. Certainly less about sound than they think.

[Wilko]

Screw counting?

Screw counting is for strats.

It's 9 or 11 (and is that one closer to the middle pickup)

[Don]

I love the Les Paul forum. I've been a member there for almost 6 years. It's where I learned to use the guitar's volume and tone knobs to get a good clean sound out of a Les Paul and it's how I got to this forum, but...
You're not likely to get unbiased opinions about (non Gibson) Les Paul type guitars from the members there, not even from me (though I try to be open minded).

[rudutch]

I think the clientel here is blessed with more class
How's that for PC? (not pc)
Yes, I'm a member there too

[SabuJSE]

My new Spalted-Maple tele fits the bill of what you are looking for - maple on basswood (don't laugh, light and airy tone), sustain for days, and wonderful SD pickups - 59 in the neck, Pearly Gates in the bridge. And a coil-tap.

About 750 bucks brand new. Highly recommended

[detuned]

Those new knockoffs from Reverend look pretty cool, & REv has a good reputation, imports or not.

Just sayin'

[FrankJohnson]

What were the negatives? Do you recall?

I thought about posting my question over there, but they don't even have a "Clone Zone"-type forum, so I was afraid the philosophy over there might be "If it ain't Gibson, it's crap."

I have to admit, I keep going back to that rondomusic site and looking at the Agiles. In addition to their sweet-looking LP copies, they've got some PRS copies that look pretty nice. And they've got ash Strat and Tele copies that make me drool.

Email me off line.....I will give you some other info.....


I think the upper line ones (4000 series) have even better hardware.....bridges, saddles, etc.....I have a bone nut and grovers, very good pots and switch - I believe the upgrade steps you up again......

Tonegrowler@yahoo.com

I am in Delaware....not much chance of running over one eavining....

FWIW -
Kurt has a very liberal return policy.....30 days - pretty much no questions if returned in new condition. I believe you eat the shipping.....not bad!

[refriedwhiskey]

Thanks for the info, Frank. I shot you an E-mail.

[FrankJohnson]

Thanks for the info, Frank. I shot you an E-mail.

Back at ya

[Charles Obscure]

+1 on the Agile guitars. I bought a LP style flame top with P90's. After returning the first one because of a faulty pup switch, they sent me another that is nicer than the first one. I'm VERY happy with the quality and playability of this guitar, and I've received positive comments from others as well. What a bargain at $200!

I want to buy another model for modding. I'm thinking of a Strat-style guitar with lipstick pups, perhaps.

[hudpucker]

My pal's had two Agile LP's and they were great for the money. They were also both REALLY heavy.

His ownership of both is past tense.


YMMV.

[refriedwhiskey]

I do think it's funny that the descriptions of their higher-end LP copies say "only 10 lbs."

But my old LP Custom weighed 10 lbs, so I know I can handle a guitar that heavy as long as it plays well and sounds good. That mass is a big part of the tone and sustain this kind of guitar has; the weight is the price of admission.

[Stratlover]

Oops,
Epiphone Elitist - also rumored to be very nice

http://www.epiphone.com/elitist/standardplus.htm

Other than Heritage, the Epi Elitist line has been the best non-Gibson LP I have played. I see them for good prices on ebay quite often. I find the quality very close to the Gibsons.

The regular Korean Epi LP Standard is pretty cool too. I would recommend the Elitist for the budget you are in though.

[frank thomson]

NO AFFILIATION....H/C AD

1994 Gibson Les Paul Studio- Ebony, has some wear, usual for a 13 yr old players guitar, a chip in the headstock (above the G string tuning peg). Still plays great. Has Seymour Duncan pups (JB in the bridge and Alnico II in the neck), originals and pick guard are included. Has the brown Gibson HSC. Looking to get $550.00 shipped. (SALE)PENDING

deal are out there

prob get a faded series for $400