Can YOU hear the difference between Ash and Alder?

[hudpucker]

How about clips of a strat, tele, and LP played through the same amp on the same settings?


That'd be a more fair test. Lotta work though.

[tugboat]

Despite what people say about how different Teles, Strats, and Pauls sound, there's not near enough difference between the three for me to be in any way, shape, or form confident in my guesses. But I'll guess anyways.

#1: Telecaster with an Ash body (cut from near the bottom of a tree that was cut back in 1963 in the middle of Georgia; obviously a one-piece body and had very low iron content but was high in sulfur) and Brazilian Rosewood fretboard (sounds too smooth to be Indian Rosewood).

#2: Les Paul with new-wood Mahogany cut from a forest in Nicaragua (It doesn't sound good enough for me to believe its "old wood", and Mahogany from Nicaragua sounds better than Mahogany from Honduras; the difference is subtle here, but you can tell) and Brazilian Rosewood fretboard (you can really tell how the BR fretboard smooths out the tone and makes up some for the new-wood Mahogany). It also sounds like one of the luthiers at Gibson sneezed on the wood prior to finishing and didn't quite clean off all of the mucus.

#3: Strat with an alder body and a quarter-sawn maple neck (sounds tighter than a flat-sawn neck). The poly finish on the guitar is easily heard and really hinders the tone IMO. The resonant frequency of the neck is C# (but a little flat) and the resonant frequency of the body is a spot-on G. As for pickups, the bridge is a CS Texas Special (the B string sounds a bit more demagnitized than the others), and the middle and neck both came from a 1982 strat. From the sound, its finished in Daphne Blue.


What did I win?

[Guitar_Mc]

How about clips of a strat, tele, and LP played through the same amp on the same settings?


That'd be a more fair test. Lotta work though.

I think its a fair test - for people who think they can turn on a radio, give a listen and tell you what they're listening to.

[stratcat62]

As has been mentioned a million times, tone begins with the hands. That being said, everything you place between your fingers and the listeners ears affects the sound. Picks, strings, pickups, woods, effects and amps. With all this, those differences are frequently subtle to the point of being lost on even the best of us. I'm not falling for trying to identify what make/model guitar is used on a recorded passage. Just listen to Jimmy Page playing early Zep on a tele to know that the right combinations of elements, starting with the player, can make that a daunting if not impossible exercise. At any rate, in general ash does sound different from alder but those differences are way to subtle to worry about. I judge my guitars simply, if they deliver a pleasing tone acoustically (this includes solid bodies) and play comfortably (or if a good set up will get them there) for me they're good. All the other tone shaping can be accomplished by simple means. And I actually believe EJ can hear the difference in tone created by the change of humidity in the next room.

[Guitar_Mc]

I bet their all Piney.

[NTBluesGuitar]

It's a trick question.

They're all balsa wood ukeleles from WalMart equipped with Fishman MiniQ.

It's a true testament to the quality of a tweed amp, though. Tone is all in the Mercury iron you play through.

[hudpucker]

I think its a fair test - for people who think they can turn on a radio, give a listen and tell you what they're listening to.

For those who were adamant that Led Zep I was recorded with a Lester sure, I agree but...

...if all things were equal (such as amp, string gauge, same player, etc) I'd bet that some of us could get it right more often than not.

Just sayin.' You know...stump the chump.

[tugboat]

For those who were adamant that Led Zep I was recorded with a Lester sure, I agree but...

...if all things were equal (such as amp, string gauge, same player, etc) I'd bet that some of us could get it right more often than not.

Just sayin.' You know...stump the chump.

With all due respect, I think this is the perfect experiment. Its a prime example that guitar doesn't matter near as much as people think it does (that's what this proves to me at least). You can tweak the eq of the amp to your liking (which everyone does anyways unless they have a Tweed Champ) which can and will oftentimes make it darn near impossible to pick out exactly which guitar is which in a blind comparison.

[boobtube21]

That one sounds to me like a Strat with a tele bridge pickup.

I've never been good at telling guitars apart. If I listen for long enough, sometimes I can make a pretty good call, and telling single coil from double coil is usually easy enough. But for a long time I thought both the dudes in NOFX played Les Pauls--El Hefe plays a tele! Sounds just like a double humbucker.

[EJG]

I know I can't reliably tell the difference, either between guitar models (like those in Fezz's clips) or between woods.

[hudpucker]

With all due respect, I think this is the perfect experiment. Its a prime example that guitar doesn't matter near as much as people think it does (that's what this proves to me at least). You can tweak the eq of the amp to your liking (which everyone does anyways unless they have a Tweed Champ) which can and will oftentimes make it darn near impossible to pick out exactly which guitar is which in a blind comparison.

With all due respect, I don't dispute the validity of your point but you're missing mine.

I simply said that if ALL THINGS WERE EQUAL that some would likely be correct more often than not in guessing what the guitar used was.

[Mikey]

No, I can't tell the difference. Never could.
Now, let's do a test between a cheap guitar, like and Agile, Squier, or Epiphone, and match it against an expensive model of the same genre.

[Guitar_Mc]

I'm really disappointed. This is the oportunity for those with superior hearing to show it off. (although Neo did a pretty good job)

I want to see someone pick out the correct wood types, finish, or even pickup out of some samples. Heck, I'd like to see people pick the tube amp out of a lineup with Fezz on a POD or J-station.

[JAM]

I simply said that if ALL THINGS WERE EQUAL that some would likely be correct more often than not in guessing what the guitar used was.

But, that's just it: all things can never be equal. (Thankfully)

[hudpucker]

Sure they can; people post "guess which X" clips on other forums all the time. Clips labelled A, B, and C with identical amp, guitar, players, phrases, etc. depending upon what's being tested.

Now I'd agree with you regarding most recorded music but as far as tone tasting clips go it can be done.

Provided the resolution isn't so squashed of course...

[Guitar_Mc]

This reminds me of the time a guy in my office told me he could identify bottled water & tap water.

I put two glasses of water in front of him. He was able to tell a distinct flavor difference between the two. He described what the difference was, and without any doubt in his mind identified which was tap water and which was bottled water.

Do you think He identified them correctly?

Nope, they were both tap water. Even though he could tell a distict difference between them.

He was pissed about that for a while.

[SabuJSE]

Growler, very true. We get wiser about our tools as we get more experience with them...

... but for me, outside of the basic differences between wood density and type of pickup, tone is in the person playing.

[NeoFauve]

I heard more variety in fezz's 3 clips that I hear in most manufacturer's clips aimed at selling pricey guitars or replacement p'ups.

[JAM]

Sure they can; people post "guess which X" clips on other forums all the time. Clips labelled A, B, and C with identical amp, guitar, players, phrases, etc. depending upon what's being tested.

Now I'd agree with you regarding most recorded music but as far as tone tasting clips go it can be done.

Provided the resolution isn't so squashed of course...

OK, but I cant see how that's important. I get a little tired of people talking about 'tone'. I'm more interested in hearing music.

[hudpucker]

It's not important but neither is knowing whether one can hear the difference between ash and alder...or 'old wood' and plastic...or 12's and 9's...or maple and rosewood...or modded TS-9's and OEM TS-9's...or HRD's and DRRI's...or...poly and nitro...or long tenon vs. rocker tenon, etc.


Tired of hearing about people talking about 'tone'? Uh..this is an internet guitar forum you know...(athough it's probably more accurate if we referred to 'tone' as 'timbre'...just sayin')

[JAM]

What I'm really interested in is the difference in tone in telephone listening devices. fezz gets a good sound out of his.

[boobtube21]

The main lead is a Strat, neck pickup. The lead/rhythm two string stuff is the nashville tele, the rest is Guitar G.

Aha! So I was onto something. I knew it sounded like a Strat neck pickup, but the bridge sounded more like a Tele.

Sure couldn't tell you what type of wood though.

[Growler]

Despite what people say about how different Teles, Strats, and Pauls sound, there's not near enough difference between the three for me to be in any way, shape, or form confident in my guesses. But I'll guess anyways.

#1: Telecaster with an Ash body (cut from near the bottom of a tree that was cut back in 1963 in the middle of Georgia; obviously a one-piece body and had very low iron content but was high in sulfur) and Brazilian Rosewood fretboard (sounds too smooth to be Indian Rosewood).

#2: Les Paul with new-wood Mahogany cut from a forest in Nicaragua (It doesn't sound good enough for me to believe its "old wood", and Mahogany from Nicaragua sounds better than Mahogany from Honduras; the difference is subtle here, but you can tell) and Brazilian Rosewood fretboard (you can really tell how the BR fretboard smooths out the tone and makes up some for the new-wood Mahogany). It also sounds like one of the luthiers at Gibson sneezed on the wood prior to finishing and didn't quite clean off all of the mucus.

#3: Strat with an alder body and a quarter-sawn maple neck (sounds tighter than a flat-sawn neck). The poly finish on the guitar is easily heard and really hinders the tone IMO. The resonant frequency of the neck is C# (but a little flat) and the resonant frequency of the body is a spot-on G. As for pickups, the bridge is a CS Texas Special (the B string sounds a bit more demagnitized than the others), and the middle and neck both came from a 1982 strat. From the sound, its finished in Daphne Blue.


What did I win?

I find it interesting that you're able to talk knowledgeably about the subtle nuances of how a cut of wood, or a certain country of origin of wood sounds different, yet you apparently have difficulty in identifying an all mahogany (maple topped) guitar with humbuckers from one that's Ash, bolted together, has single coils and a different scale length.

Really and truly, and I'm not trying to be rude here, any guitarist worth his salt should EASILY be able to differentiate the sound of a Strat from a Les Paul.

[Kap'n]

Really and truly, and I'm not trying to be rude here, any guitarist worth his salt should EASILY be able to differentiate the sound of a Strat from a Les Paul.

....when playing within it's idiom.

You can get a lot of cool tones out of any decent guitar, some of which resemble other instruments.

For example, if you use the two inside coils of a Les Paul, it will bear a passing resemblence to a Strat. Not Mark Knopfler playing Sultans of Swing, but grab a bit of the vibe.

Now, if you were playing a strat, and trying to grab a bit of the 'paul sound, you're not going to nail the sound of a lester in it's idiom.

However, it might sound like an LP with the two inside coils.

[boobtube21]

I find it interesting that you're able to talk knowledgeably about the subtle nuances of how a cut of wood, or a certain country of origin of wood sounds different...

I think I detected just a little sarcasm in tugboat's post there.

[Growler]

I think I detected just a little sarcasm in tugboat's post there.

Maybe I missed the point! Oh well.

[Growler]

....when playing within it's idiom.

You can get a lot of cool tones out of any decent guitar, some of which resemble other instruments.

For example, if you use the two inside coils of a Les Paul, it will bear a passing resemblence to a Strat. Not Mark Knopfler playing Sultans of Swing, but grab a bit of the vibe.

Now, if you were playing a strat, and trying to grab a bit of the 'paul sound, you're not going to nail the sound of a lester in it's idiom.

However, it might sound like an LP with the two inside coils.

I agree with that.

[tugboat]

I find it interesting that you're able to talk knowledgeably about the subtle nuances of how a cut of wood, or a certain country of origin of wood sounds different, yet you apparently have difficulty in identifying an all mahogany (maple topped) guitar with humbuckers from one that's Ash, bolted together, has single coils and a different scale length.

Really and truly, and I'm not trying to be rude here, any guitarist worth his salt should EASILY be able to differentiate the sound of a Strat from a Les Paul.

I got the guitars right except for the technicality in clip #3. I guessed Tele for #1, Les Paul for #2, and Strat for #3. According to Fezz, #1 WAS a Tele, #2 WAS a Les Paul and #3 was the Nashville tele from clip #1.

I think I detected just a little sarcasm in tugboat's post there.

What he said. I threw as much sarcasm into that as I could.

[tugboat]

Not to beat a dead horse, but you got two out of three. While the Nashville has three pickups, the only one that was used was the bridge pickup. So, there's no technicality. #3 WAS a Tele, bridge pickup.

I though you had the Nashville in the #2 position for soundclip #3. Shows just how much I know.

2 out of 3 ain't bad. Even Babe Ruth didn't bat .667.

[surfreak]

I can hear tone differences between Alder and Swamp Ash only when their structural features are extreme.

In other words, a very dense, heavier piece of Alder does sound distinctly different from a very lightweight piece of Swamp Ash to my ears.

[stratcat62]

I can tell the difference between silicon implants and natural breasts with both eyes closed.

I still believe there are subtle differences but they really are beyond considering. Everything affects tone including the atmosphere so it would be virtually impossible to have everything equal between 2 guitars in order to make an objective finding. That being said, I prefer the grain of ash.

[Gravity Jim]

Even more deviation....

The classic tones everyone is trying to identify and emulate aren't even the actual sound of the guitar through the amp in the room... they're recordings of those tones, altered by mic, mic placement, EQ, console tone, tape stock....

That's why every guitar player just knew they'd never nail that solo tone from "Stairway" til they had a Les Paul and a Marshall. Until now, of course, when we all know it was a Tele.

And then you play long enough, and you finally realize that getting the tone is all in how you pick and how fast you bend into that first note and when you introduce vibrato, and that you can pretty much make that sound on any guitar in your hands if you know how to play the part.

[tugboat]

And then you play long enough, and you finally realize that getting the tone is all in how you pick and how fast you bend into that first note and when you introduce vibrato, and that you can pretty much make that sound on any guitar in your hands if you know how to play the part.

That's what I'm starting to realize. That John Carrol thing for example. And Brad Paisley. He's used a shmorgasboard of different Telecasters on his 4 albums. The only thing different I can tell in his whole catalogue is his Who Needs Pictures album and the rest. Who Needs Pictures is a bit brighter than his latest 2. I'm not sure if that's the mix or the amp (I know he's been using a lot of Dr. Z amps recently, and Who Needs Pictures is all Vox AC-30). Still sounds like Paisley though. Heck, I can't tell a bit of difference between guitars on his last three albums. Sounds the exact friggin same to me.

[bern1]

I signed on to ask a question and here is a thread with 3 pages about the topic I wanted to ask about! But do any of these answer my question? Of course not, but then I expected that!

The question I was going to ask is: is there a difference in sound between a Custom Tele with an ash body or an alder body? I know they made a few in ash in 1959. I'm trying to decide which to order.....

[tugboat]

I signed on to ask a question and here is a thread with 3 pages about the topic I wanted to ask about! But do any of these answer my question? Of course not, but then I expected that!

The question I was going to ask is: is there a difference in sound between a Custom Tele with an ash body or an alder body? I know they made a few in ash in 1959. I'm trying to decide which to order.....

Leo made the switch purely for economical reasons. Ash is a royal pain in the ass to finish. Alder isn't. Its cheaper to finish Alder.

Any tone differences between the 2 are slight and could me made up for with simple amp EQ tweaks. IMO, player, amp, and pickups/general guitar type make much more audible difference than the variations between Ash and Alder. Heck, listen to Fezz's sound clips. The differences between the Tele he used in #1 and #3 compared to his Les Paul in #2. And that's a 24.5" mahogany set-neck humbucker guitar.

With that said, I like Ash for no logical reason. If the finish is a sunburst or in any way translucent or transparent, I'd go with Ash purely because its purtier.

[boobtube21]

I signed on to ask a question and here is a thread with 3 pages about the topic I wanted to ask about! But do any of these answer my question? Of course not, but then I expected that!

I think most people said, "no". I'm in that camp

The question I was going to ask is: is there a difference in sound between a Custom Tele with an ash body or an alder body? I know they made a few in ash in 1959. I'm trying to decide which to order.....

Well, why didn't you ask it???

I gotcha. Seriously though, like some others said, I'm sure the difference, if there is any, is so slight it's not worth worrying about.

If I were you I would play both and see which one feels like it's already yours.

[bern1]

Thanks everybody, it's a great thread. I have more experience with Strats, and I can't say that I can tell a lot of difference between ash and alder there. Good advice to go check one of each out but may be hard for me to do...

[refin]

In the fireplace (the great equalizer of all woods) they burn about the same........

[tugboat]

In the fireplace (the great equalizer of all woods) they burn about the same........

But the vintage wood burns so much purer!

[Kap'n]

With a better crackle.