Intonation troubles on a MIM Strat

[Jesse S.]

Hi,

If you can't get a guitar to intonate properly by adjusting the saddles, are there any other things that can be adjusted/corrected? Could truss rod relief affect intonation? What about shimming the neck? (As much as I dread doing that...)

On my MIM Strat, I can get all the strings intonated properly except the low E. I've got the saddle back as far as the spring will allow and it's still too sharp. This has been consistent on many different brands of strings, and with different gauges (I normally play a 42 for the low E, but I'm currently trying out Fender's "Traditional" bullets with a 38 for the low E - same problem).

I suppose the next step might be to clip a piece of the spring out, but I hate irreversible modifications like that, and I'd hate to snip too much and end up flat all the time!

Second question: anyone know the specs for the saddle intonation screws on a '92 MIM Strat? That E string screw has been overcranked and stripped so often I need a flathead driver to turn it now.

Thanks!

[BradKM]

The nut could be cut improperly, the pickups could be set too high...it could be any number of things.

Back those pickups down and try again. If that doesn't work, move take a look at the nut.

[Jesse S.]

Last time I checked, the pickups were set at Fender factory specs, but I'll check again to see if anything's changed with the different string gauge (I probably need to adjust the trem claw, too, now that I think of it).

[JAM]

Jesse,

I read somewhere (maybe one of Dan Erlewines columns he used to write in GP) that heavier strings need less compensation. Maybe try a heavier low E? A 38 is pretty light for an E.

[Jesse S.]

JAM, I know that's a light string. This is an experiment - I'm going through different string brands to see what works for me. This set is the Fender Traditional Original Bullets, which claim to be the same string gauges that the Fender "Rock-n-Roller" strings were in the late '60s. Thought I'd give them a try.

I usually use 10-42 sets, and I've always had the same intonation annoyance with it. Sometimes it's better than other times, but usually that string goes sharp at and above the 12th fret.

[JAM]

One of my friends had a similar problem on a 335 and the bridge had to relocated back on the low E side. As BradKM mentions it could be other factors too.

[telecast]

It's the nut.

Also, when using an electronic tuner, ALWAYS:

Volume on FULL,

Tone all the way DOWN

Neck pickup ONLY

This is true whether you're tuning or setting intonation.

[Jesse S.]

Thanks telecast, those are good tips. I usually do it that way. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a nut issue. Would that explain why I sometimes hear/feel creaks near the headstock when I bend?

Maybe I need to take this in to a good tech at some point.

[telecast]

Would that explain why I sometimes hear/feel creaks near the headstock when I bend?

Absolutely. Those creaks (I call them 'doinks') are caused when the string is released from a pinching nut.

[Plugger]

Maybe I need to take this in to a good tech at some point.

Good idea. The trick is finding a good tech. I got so disgusted over the years taking my instruments to hacks that I ended up learning how to do just about everything myself...

-Mark

[Plugger]

Just a thought -- it's surprising the nut would still be binding if you're using as skinny a string as an .038 for the low E (I remember these from the 70s... thought I'd never see a set of .008 -- .038s again :) ).

What do you think, Telecast?

-Mark

[OneL]

....The trick is finding a good tech....

For those still searching for a good tech, find out who the pro players in your area are using and recommend. :yay

[tenebrae]

Just a thought -- it's surprising the nut would still be binding if you're using as skinny a string as an .038 for the low E (I remember these from the 70s... thought I'd never see a set of .008 -- .038s again :) ).

What do you think, Telecast?

-Mark

I'll hazard a guess that it's V slotted...a proper slot will look like half an O, a poorly cut/finished slot sometimes ends up more like a "v" and the string, irrespective of gauge finds its support at the sides of the slot rather than sitting nicely. This will cause the creaking you might hear tuning up or by bending. Problems will also arise with the affected string sitting too low in the nut (over time it'll cut its way down) and you'll also get buzzing on the open string if this situation goes on. Notice anything like this, Jesse?

So, I'm with telecast: it's the nut. Though his reasoning would be far more correct than mine.

Tenebrae

[telecast]

I think tenebrae's close. On a new guitar, that would be the first thing to look for.

On a used guitar, the string has probably worked it's way into the slot more, creating a tight area at the bottom. You end up with a slot that likes to pinch on the sides.

Quick fix: Get a wound string 2-3 sizes up from the one you're using. Run the string back and forth in the slot like a file, not putting any down pressure on, just cleaning up the slot.

[Jesse S.]

I'm leaning towards the nut being at fault here, too. I finished setting up the guitar last night, and noticed that although the low E is in tune at the nut and as close as I can get it at the 12th fret, my Boss TU-2 registers it as substantially sharp at almost every fret between the two. (I know a guitar will never be exactly in tune at every fret, but this seems too extreme to be normal.) The other strings are better.

How much does a good replacement nut usually cost, with cutting and installation? Should I get a similar plastic nut, or upgrade to some other material?

I like OneL's suggestion for finding a good tech. I'll have to ask around.

[tenebrae]

Find a tech....and get a nice bone or graphite nut cut for your MIM. You'll be much happier. A nut cut by a good tech is a thing of beauty. Once you've found a good tech, stick with him and you'll develop a relationship over time that will benefit you enormously. OneL's advice is spot on. Go where the pros go...they go there for a reason. Cost? I paid about $35 USD to have a bone nut cut and fitted to a PRS Santana SE that had a crappy hollow plastic thing on it. The strings sat too high, where the string broke over the nut was wrong, G slot was crooked, slots were too deep, bearing surface too broad...a new nut transformed the guitar.

Tenebrae

[Cheapstrat]

A new "properly" cut and slotted nut is always a plus to remedy problems. But cutting the spring on your bridge isn't all that big of a deal and any music store that has a repair shop should have the springs available. I put new saddles on my MIM Strat and had the same problem (Graphtec Saddles)...had to snip about 1/3 of the spring to get the saddle back far enought to intonate correctly. It's been on the button for a year...seldom have to even touch it up whe I change strings. Just a thought.

[Cheapstrat]

Find a tech....and get a nice bone or graphite nut cut for your MIM. You'll be much happier. A nut cut by a good tech is a thing of beauty.

Tenebrae

Amen...a thing of beauty and alot of problems go away too. ;)

[LesPauloholic]

I'm leaning towards the nut being at fault here, too. I finished setting up the guitar last night, and noticed that although the low E is in tune at the nut and as close as I can get it at the 12th fret, my Boss TU-2 registers it as substantially sharp at almost every fret between the two. (I know a guitar will never be exactly in tune at every fret, but this seems too extreme to be normal.) The other strings are better.

If you are in tune with the open E string and you lightly fret the note at the first fret and the F is substancially sharp then the nut slot was cut so that it is higer on the peg head side and lower on the fret board side. You can remidy this by cleaning out the nut slot with a file and "leveling" the slot as long as it isn't cut too low already. If that is the problem, a tech can fix it in a matter of seconds....

Greg