Which Kinman For Me, Oh Ye Experts?

[DoobieK]

My Strat clone project is complete, but I am not digging the Lace Holy Grails. They sound weak and dull. I spent a couple hours last night fiddling with the heights, but give up. I am looking toward Kinman.

I played and have owned Amer. Standard Strats and while I like the general sound, cannot live with the hum.

Which of the Kinman's will get me closest to the American Std? I am NOT looking for a Stevie Ray sound, but am looking for Knopfler or a surf sound. What say you, Woodstock, Trad. MKII or other?

[stratcat62]

I have a set of Woodstocks and a set of Blues. Either will get the tones you're looking for. I purposely avoid a SRV tone, and primarily use my strat with the Woodstocks. They seem more responsive to changes in guitar volume from clean to singing distortion. I might also recommend spending an extra $89 for Kinman's solderless kit. The pots are flawless and with the blender plot you get more versitality than the SCN's with S1 switch Fender offers. My number one is Am. Deluxe with Ash body and maple fretboard, Woodstocks with the solderless kit. For me, this combination delivers a great variety of good tones with warmth and clarity.

[DoobieK]

Thanks for the input Stratcat. I was leaning toward the Woodstocks and no-solder. I just placed my order. I know they are worth it, but $375.00, YIKES!!!

[sabby]

I had the Woodstocks and the MKIIs. The Woodstocks are pretty thick sounding and at over 7k, they'll drive your preamp pretty hard. I think the MKIIs would do a better job of straddling Knopfler to surf tones.

Oh, and buy yourself a soldering iron and save a 85 bills.

[Constellation80]

i don't know about which ones are right for you, but the blues ones are for sure right for me. Smooth deep. could even play jazz. I only wish I could afford them!

[DoobieK]

Well, I did buy into the hype and ordered the no-solder kit. I sweated and pondered it, but in the end figured I would go the lazy route. I have probably installed hundreds of pickups and had a momentary lapse of reason. Must be old age catching up with me.

I did like the Woodstock sound files and the description did mention Knopfler and Dick Dale in the description. Kinman does not seem like a BS'er, so I figure to go with what their recommendation says, more than some online sellers. The MK II's seemed like they may be just a wee bit thinner than I would like and the Blues seemed too dull/fat etc. Again, this is listening to soundfiles, so you have to just trust them to a degree. Seems like the Woodstocks are a compromise between the other two and I have read a lot of good things about them. So what if I end up sounding like Hendrix. Yeah, right... :)

I was going to post photos of the new guitar, but I am still a bit of an internet dummy. So, my avatar is a photo of the clone.

[sabby]

DoobieK, you can trust those soundfiles. They're surprisingly descriptive. Yeah, you'll love them.

[stratcat62]

Good choice, using the volume on you guitar will get you the tones you're after. As for the solderless kit, it provides much more than an easy installation. The pots are to Kinman's spec's and are the smoothest I've ever had. The Blender control can be very useful. I was happy enough with it that when I ordered my set of blues I ordered an additional kit. Couldn't be happier with the results.

[DoobieK]

I have a lot of confidence the Woodstocks will do the trick. I am going to search for some more soundfiles, just for kicks. I did some more tweaking and put an American Series bridge on the guitar and that helped bring things to life a bit. I think the first bridge I put on may be a little flimsy. Who knows... It sounds best when I have the tone control switched out of the circuit. I can live with it until the Kinman's arrive.

Time to play the hell out of it for a few days, enjoy it and let it settle in. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

[solimar]

I got the no-solder kit with my Woodstock and thought it was worth it for the reasons mentioned above. It is pre-wired to blend the neck and bridge pickups.

[Plugger]

What about shielding? Surely a cheaper solution if it is only the hum that worries you...

-Mark

[Chris Kinman]

Plugger, shielding is at best a minimum solution, it only helps keep noise out of the pots and exposed wiring. You can not shield noise from the pickups by installing screening materials in your guitar. Hum (Electro Magnetic noise) can only be dealt with by cancelling it. And that is far from easy to do if you still want a great sound and excellent dynamic performance. To acheive that you have to pay for the technology.

[Tele-Bob]

Right on Chris. I am a believer!

I love plugging in my Kinman equipped Strat at the open mic, stomping on my OD pedal and then holding my guitar up to the neon sign right behind the band as all watch in awe that nary buzz, hum or crackle comes through my amp unless I actually make contact with the sign.

Shielding doesn't come close to handling the hum the way Kinmans do.

Is that worth the money. Shit yeah! Oh, and they sound incredible too!

[DoobieK]

Even using uncovered humbuckers humm too much for me. I admit, I am waaaay to picky. My unshielded, Kinman equipped Teles sound great and are just as quiet as my shielded, covered humbucker guitars.

BTW, I did shield the clone anyway. It never hurts to do things right from the start.

I saw a friend's band play last month and the hum from his guitar was incredibly annoying, even to him. He was always fiddling with the volume control on his Strat during quiet passages and between songs. I want to concentrate on playing and stomping, not having to worry about hum that could easily enough be avoided.

Rock on, Chris!!!

Now a while back sombody was egging you on to develop a noiseless P-90. GET CRACKING MAN! ;)

[Offshore Angler]

It runs in cycles. A couple years ago f you didn't have Bill and Becky's pups you were missing out.

[Plugger]

I love plugging in my Kinman equipped Strat at the open mic, stomping on my OD pedal and then holding my guitar up to the neon sign right behind the band as all watch in awe that nary buzz, hum or crackle comes through my amp unless I actually make contact with the sign.

That's impressive T-B, but I was assuming you'd just use your guitar to play songs like most people here... ;)

Seriously, I'm sure Kinmans will do a more than adequate job of noise cancellation. But what if you only need adequate? (Obviously, that will vary from player to player.)

My stock MIM pups will (in rare situations) pick up noise in positions 1,3,5. If this occurs, I will choose "virtual humbucking" position 2 or 4 for instant noise cancellation. Adequate? Works for me...

Eventually, I might get around to trying the full cavity shielding thing. Now, this thread is the first time I've heard anyone say that full shielding on a Strat doesn't help with hum to a significant extent. But I'll probably end up spending a few hours on a rainy afternoon doing it anyway. If it works half as well as many people claim, I suspect it will be more than an adequate solution (for me.) YMMV.

Just occured to me that if someone basically likes the tone of their pups, and it's only the noise that's a problem, you might try the easy (and cheap) things first. Personally, if I was going to spend big bucks on boutique pups, it would be because I wanted their sound. For the amount of noise I'm getting, spending that sort of moolah for the noise cancellation alone would be way overkill.

Anyway, when I get around to doing the shielding thing, I'll report back on my results. I'll can't guarantee I'll be able to do the full "neon sign" test, though. :) (I will try to time my test to coincide with the next reported period of extreme sunspot activity, however.)

-Mark

[DoobieK]

Plugger, I thought about just trying the shielding. Then I would still have to guess and try a set of pickups I liked, (Fralins, Fenders, Van Zandt, Rolphs, WCR, Duncans) and if they didn't do the trick for me, buy another set, and on, and on. I have 5 sets of Tele pickups that didn't do it for me. That is more than a set of Kinman's cost. Both sets of Kinman Tele pups nail the sound for me in their respective guitars.

The Lace's I tried in this guitar were tried because of a LOT of good things I read about them. I saved a lot of money buying them, but these will go on the pile. Since I know kinman's pups for Tele are what I like, it is a minimal risk for me to try the Strat pups he sells.

I of course have heard true single coil pickups that sound great and had times when the noise was not an issue. However, I would rather spend more money up front once and achieve the goal than spend a lot more money and time only to eventually buy a product that I knew I should have at least tried in the first place.

[Kap'n]

Call me wacky. I like the noise from real single coil pickups. It makes it sound real.

I don't use lots of gain, so it's not really that noisy, anyway.

[thetallcoolone]

Call me wacky. I like the noise from real single coil pickups. It makes it sound real.

I don't use lots of gain, so it's not really that noisy, anyway.

OK!
You wacky!

[sabby]

The Woodstocks are pretty singluar pickups. I've never heard an overwound strat pup with the glass they have. They may not be exactly single coils, but they're damned close, especially when playing live with other instruments when they have some serious sweet cut.

[DoobieK]

I can respect your comments Kap'n. I do use a fair bit of gain from time to time. If I played all clean or never used as much gain as I do (again, from time to time) It might not be an issue for me either.

I also agree, you ARE wacky!

[Plugger]

DoobieK,

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood -- I thought you basically like the American Standard pup sound, except for the fact they were too noisy for you. From what you say later it sounds like it's not this simple.

Maybe I'm wacky too, but I sympathise with the Kap'n to some degree -- I don't recall Hendrix or Clapton ever cancelling a show because the pickups hummed too much on their guitars! (They probably wouldn't dared to have tried the T-B "neon sign" test, though... although, come to think of it, Hendrix would have probably just incorporated it into the show... and years later, people would still be striving to duplicate the exact same "genuine Jimi neon sign" sound... Digitech would be cleaning up making "authentic Jimi neon sign" pedals...)

I need to get back to work...

-Mark

[Tele-Bob]

Plugger, I play a lot of clubs where the noise from a well shielded, single coil p'up guitar is unbearable. I personally do not choose to subject the audience to a humming noise that is sometimes louder than the band during one of my solo passages. I play a cleaner rythm sound than most and only use a moderate amount of gain for my solos.

You guys can romanticize about your 60 cycle hum all you want, but in the clubs I've been playing at, the hum gets louder than the band at times and it's annoying. When I use one of my Kinman equipped guitars, I do not feel like I'm giving anything up to have a quiet guitar. Kinman p'ups work excellent for my purposes. There is no compromise. If anything, my Tele and Strat with regular Fender single coils in them might sound a little more oganic, but that doesn't necessarily mean better. It's just different.

I feel that the less I have to deal with on stage, the more I can concentrate on putting out a good sound and a good show. That has been my personal experience with the "hum" issue.

[Offshore Angler]

Well, it is a rule that every bar bandstand needs at least one neon beer sign on it. A little 60hz never hurt anybody though. But like Bob, sometimes it's just unbearable.

[Kap'n]

Well, it is a rule that every bar bandstand needs at least one neon beer sign on it. A little 60hz never hurt anybody though. But like Bob, sometimes it's just unbearable.

I guess I've been fortunate that it hasn't been an issue for me. I suppose if it comes up, I'll rethink my position.

I just realized that out of eight electrics, none of them have humbuckers or noiseless pickups. A couple of them do have noise-cancelling pickup settings.

[Tele-Bob]

P90s are totally un-usable at some area clubs here. Why do you think I keep harping on Chris to get those noiseless P90's into production!

[Kap'n]

Why do you think I keep harping on Chris to get those noiseless P90's into production!

I figured it was just to be a pain in the ass, like usual. :bwa

[stratcat62]

Most of us who gig are going to spend a great deal of time in less than stellar clubs. Here in Fl., the majority of blues clubs have the absolute crappiest electrical systems. While noiseless is not a requirement, it is certainly a great improvement on your performance in these hostile environments. That said, the noiseless feature was a plus with both sets of Kinman's I own. The tone is where they shine. The biggest problem I had was which set to put in which strat. I found I preferred the Blues in an old American Std (alder body, rosewood fretboard) and the Woodstocks in my number one (American Deluxe with Ash body and maple fretboard). Either guitar is great, but the Deluxe with the Woodstocks is the more versatile. Again, a plug for the solderless kit; simply put, Kinman's kit does exactly what it is supposed to. No loss of treble when lowering the volume and true tone modification versus rolling off treble with the tone pots. Once tried, you won't go back.

[thetallcoolone]

Not knowing when and if I'm going to gig again and that I have a MIM FatStrat that I paid $480CDN back in 2001.
Is it really worth spending that $180US ($215CDN) I'd pay for 2 Kinmans?
(that's almost half the price of the guitar)

While I'm at it, considering that I have an old Dimarzio Super Distortion at the bridge and I want to keep it, will the Kinman's AVn Woodstock be a good match?

[Tele-Bob]

Perhaps not a great match with a Super D if you play clean because the Kinmans are real chimey and the DiMarzio SD is gritty. If you play with a fair amount of gain though, they will get along better because Kinmans, (in my experience), handle gain much better than traditional single coils. There are several different types of Kinmans. Perhaps a visit to www.kinman.com will show you a p'up choice that is best suited to your Super D and playing style.

[DoobieK]

Plugger, It's all good. I do think the Amer. Std's sound good, except for the hum. I hope the Woodstocks sound similar, only "better" and quieter. :)

I have a set of Tele Amer Series and Standard pups. I should try them in a well shielded guitar, just to see how much difference it makes for my self.

[thetallcoolone]

T-B, i had read the Kniman site but forgot to get to the sound files.
Doh!

Actually, the the AVn Woodstock-Plus are the ones that pleases my ears the most, the Hank Marvins and the Blues ones are interesting too, while different.
I don't play that clean that much anyhow.

I'm wandering if it's worth it to spend that kind of money on these pups for my MIM or should it be wiser to save up and get a better quality guitar first.
Or save up to get a better amp, I'm using the little BluesJr now.

I'm not displeased with the sound I have now but I feel I'm ready to move up a little. So many roads to take, which one will be the best for me?

(then again I should probably spend that money on guitar lessons but that's another discussion)

[Tele-Bob]

I have a couple sets of Woodstocks in my guitars and they sound great! I also have a Blues neck p'up in my Monocaster that sounds good. I have had an MKII to try as a replacement for a few months now but I just haven't gotten around to trying it. From what I've been told, the MKII is the schizzle.

[thetallcoolone]

Thanks T-B for the info.
And actually you made me realize something.
I have only one guitar so I cannot really have it setup for one type sound, it has to be able to cover a wide range.
Maybe the Woodstock might not be the wiser choice after all.

From what I've been told, the MKII is the schizzle.

Meaning?
(sorry for my lack of vocabulary and expressions)

[Tele-Bob]

LOL! The "schizzle" means "they're great".

[Kap'n]

LOL! The "schizzle" means "they're great".

Another sign of the Apocalypse...a search for The Fender Forum on Gizoogle

It's fun when you gizoogle other forums, too.:rofl

[chuckocaster]

"Used Motherfucka Stratocasta"

that's too funny! !