Tele pups upgrade - Lawrence v Barden v Hotrails?

[Telebluesfan]

OK you techie fuhkengruvers.........who's got some experience with changeouts involving these three (four?,,,see question below) types of pups?

I love tele twang, but want to get closer to DG's style of tone (gawd - if only I get "close" in the talent dept!). Anyway - I know these are largely variations on a theme - any feedback on how these compare to each other?

Also - there seems to be a "Lawrence" and a "Bill Lawrence" brand of pup available. Now, I know our good friend from Athens, OH has his counterparts at Stew-Mac selling the former, but the latter fervantly denies any association. I've not heard the story - nor do I care to for fear of starting any flame-throwing. But it does beg the question - are there differences between the two? If so, iin what ways? Anybody with any experience between these two pups would be especially intriguing to hear from.

FYI - the guit they's be going into is a bone-stock Std MIM Tele. Not the fanciest of axes but a joy to play......just want to get it a bit "edgier"......KWIM?

:ty

Mark

[Bob Craver]

Never had any experience w/ Lawrence pickups, but alot of people love 'em. Though they're blade pickups in a single housing, I've never read where anyone thought them similar to a Barden. Hotrails sound very much like a traditional humbucker and don't retain any of the trad Tele high end. I find them a little to high output for the whole Danny thing but they are a good pickup overall. I do swear by my Bardens, but I can see where they aren't for everyone. They're damned expensive for starters. They're VERY sensitive to height adjustments and can get very shrill if they're too close to the strings. With screwdriver in hand it's almost like swapping pickups just by adjusting screws. I like mine set kinda low for optimum "Teleness". They do retain alot of Tele character as well. They're perhaps the most verstile pickup I've ever seen. I also think they sound best with softer sounding brass saddles. Alot of people say they sound sterile. When they do I point 'em towards recordings by Bill Kirchen and Big Al Anderson to shut 'em up. Oh yeah, they really are dead silent! As always, YMMV. Good luck.

[Telebluesfan]

Originally posted by Bob Craver
.............Though they're blade pickups in a single housing, I've never read where anyone thought them similar to a Barden. ........

Really? I've never heard them played but if you ask Bill himself - you'd swear he was the one behind Danny's original pup design (and by ext - Barden's). I just wish I knew where to actually HEAR the darn things in action.

Thanks Bob for your input.

Mark

[GuitarsfromMars]

Originally posted by Telebluesfan


Really? I've never heard them played but if you ask Bill himself - you'd swear he was the one behind Danny's original pup design (and by ext - Barden's). I just wish I knew where to actually HEAR the darn things in action.

Thanks Bob for your input.

Mark

Bill Kirchen? Not likely,in fact, it's probably a matter of hours before he finds this place....wonder why Barden calls it the Danny Gatton model/set?

Out

GFM

[editorjuno]

The twin-blade pickup controversy between Bill Lawrence and Joe Barden is widely misunderstood -- it seems that Joe Barden obtained some of the ideas for his pickup from Danny Gatton, who apparently never told Joe that he had picked up some information from BL while visiting BL in Nashville, information that was part of a now-expired patent related to an electric piano pickup BL had designed for Hohner. BL is in no way claiming to have invented the Fender-sized twin-blade 'bucker, only that some aspects of Barden's design violated that old patent.

Although Joe Barden's current pickups and Bill Lawrence's current L-250 are somewhat similar in design, there are enough differences in materials and internal dimensions that they'd sound quite different in the same guitar. The Barden's are brighter, with a "wirey" tone similar to a steel guitar, the L-250, while brighter than a Fender single-coil, isn't quite as extreme on the high end and imo has more and smoother bass response. One caveat from BL himself: the L-250 excels at stage volume, compared to BL's popular L-280 which is famous for sounding good at *any* volume -- I don't know if Bardens have the same characteristic or not.

Since Telebluesfan plays an MIM Standard and those guitars tend to quite a bit brighter acoustically than Danny Gatton's sweet-sounding vintage Tele, Bardens might be not only too expensive, but possibly too bright even for approximating Gatton's "wirey" type of tone. Because of that and the relatively low cost of the guitar, a pair of L-250s would seem to be a more sensible choice, even though he'd have to modify or replace his pickguard because the neck model of the L-250 is Strat-sized and wouldn't fit through the stock pickguard cutout -- even then we're talking under $100 for the whole projct vs. well over $100 for a single new Barden pickup!

If he chooses Bardens, probably the best way to get them for a reasonable price is to prowl eBay and the various classified ad sites on the net for a used pair -- those pickups are well made and unlikely to detiorate in normal use over time.

[GuitarsfromMars]

Can't disagree that the BL's are less expensive,but the man said he wanted Danny's tone....Start with a set of the Bardens as the previous post states-they ARE expensive....after you do the suggested wiring....you do have to change out a pot and add a hi-pass cap....then you can look at the other mods including neck kit,stainless bridge plate,canted brass saddles,oversized knobs,etc...yeh you can get the tone that he had but about 90% in in study/shedding...lot of good video out by Danny...Telemaster comes to mind....one other thought...Jay Monterose at Vintique is the no-holds-barred authority on DG's gear as he was Danny's buddy and guitar tech...call him and ask him what he thinks is the best route to go if Danny's sound is what you're looking to achieve...my refit on my Tele was 1000$, and that was 6or7 years ago but he did the whole thing.
Good Hunting,
GFM

[editorjuno]

Afaik Jay Monterose and Joe Barden have been feuding recently, and I'm pretty sure Jay has stopped recommending Joe's pickups altogether. As a matter of fact, I think he's been referring folks to BL quite often, so it'd sure be interesting to see what pickups he'd mention to someone with an MIM Standard who wants to sound more like Danny Gatton!