Bending Bridge

[rcqp]

Sorry I'm really new to Strats, I was taught on a Epiphone when I was a kid but I just aquired a Standard Strat with a Regular Whammy bar. When I add 10 gauge ernie Ball strings the Bridge will lift up quite a bit (Maybe an inch or so) is this normal? Should I try Fender strings? Should I go for a lighter gauge? Please help!

[curtisstetka]

The tension of the strings is counterbalanced by springs in the back. Open up the square back panel on your strat. You probably have three springs back there. You'll need to add another. The tension can also be adjusted by screwing in the small claw-like plate the springs are attached to (toward neck, opposite trem block). That's more fine-adjustment. You need at least one more spring.

Good luck.

Welcome to the forum!

[photoweborama]

You can get by with three springs and 10's, just tighen the claw a bit. Fender spec is 1/8" gap between the bridge plate and the body. I have three springs in mine now and 10's. I used to have five springs, but went back to three.

Strats are great, but they do take a bit of education to really learn to love them.

[bzimm]

Here is a neat way of setting the bridge on your strat. Loosen the strings so there is little tension and back the screws out that hold the tremolo claw about a 1/4 inch or so. Position the bridge where you want it (Photo said fender recommends 1/8 inch from the body, measured at the back of the bridge, I usually set mine lower than that). Now wedge a small wood block between the body of the strat and the bridge in the tremelo cavity, accessed from the rear of the guitar (where the springs are) - take the cover off if it is on. This removes the springs from the equation when you are setting the action on your guitar. Now string up to pitch. Set your action where you like it. Then set your intonation. Once it plays to your satisfaction you can work on balancing the spring tension against the string tension, which is real easy if you have done everything as described so far. Put however many springs you want to use on the claw and attach to the bridge. Hold the guitar so the tremelo cavity is facing down and slowly turn the screws on the trem claw into the body (take a turn on each screw so they stay about the same length). As soon as the wood block drops out you are done.

You should be left with a strat that is in perfect tune and intonation, with the action you like, and the bridge height that you set in the first step.

Good Luck and have fun with your new strat.

[curtisstetka]

Oooo, that's smart!

What do I know? I only have teles and a hardtail strat! Personally, I'd just lock that sucker down, man!

[Offshore Angler]

Three will work, but you'll have trouble tuning. 4 will give you much better tuning stability and note bending. There are also springs with different rates avalable.

It works like this:
The force exerted by the springs is equal to the spring rate (which we'll call "k" - it's resistance to being stretched ) times how far they are stretched (x). Since the springs are all the same you can add their spring rates.

So for a given string tension to counterbalance, the springs need to supply a force (F). With three springs we have 3*k*x1= F, and with four springs, 4*k*x2 = F.

Since F is the same in both cases, with a little algebra you can see that a change in F due to tuning with 4 strings only causes 3/4 as much bridge movement as 3 strings. When you tune a floating bridge, you'll notice that tightening once string lossens the other 5, so you end up chasing the tuning. With a stiff set of springs this isn't too bad of a problem. But with three wimpy springs it's a real pain. Tighetening the claw won't help, because the spring rate is constant regardless of how stretched they are - unless yo stretched them so tight the metal starts to yeild, and you're nowhere near that point.

Now, let's look at note bending. It increases the tension on the string and the bridge will move. The more the bridge moves, the more things slip and slide at the saddle and the nut. So, the strings tend to go out of tune. If the springs are stiff you get less movement and stay in tune better.

Next, more springs means more mass attached to the bridge, and that usually means better sustain.

The upshot of all this is more springs is better.

Finally, I've seen some guys who will angle the outside springs and leave the inside straight. Bad move. The springs should be pulling in a straight line. Angling will effectively increase the rate on the outboard springs, but what can happen is the straight string in the middle may end up slack and loose and fall out if you wiggle the bridge, at whcih point you have real problems.

If you buy additional springs, don't buy one, but a whole set so the rates match. The'yre cheap anyways.

Oh, and don't let the above make it sound too complicated, Anybody who can figure out which end of a screwdriver to hold can change or adjust the springs in about 5 minutes.

OA

[Offshore Angler]

rcqp, another thing. Thaks for asking. One of the greatest attributes of a Strat is that is't more of a machine than a piece of art. It's like the Harley Davidson of guitars. You can learn very quicly and easily how to set it up to make it play and sound great.

Get your bridge adjusted, and then we'll give you some more easy tricks to make it a real player.

[curtisstetka]

Head hurt. Curt no grok algebra!! Make Curt angry!!! Smash! Destroy!!!

Seriously, that was extremely cool. OA. You're quite right - the strat is a marvelous piece of art meets engineering.

[photoweborama]

I'm actually trying the angle three-spring thing right now. I try a lot of stuff.
I found with five springs that I had a hard time getting the tension on either side right. Either one side or the other would consistently go out of tune.

I would measure inside to try to get the spring tension on both sides the same, but it never seemed to work well.

I went to the three springs angled to test a theory that a central pivot point, or close to one, would make the differences in spring tension between the sides less apparent and more forgiving.

It seems to work so for, but I may change my mind in a few days..

[Offshore Angler]

Well, there are times when three springs may yeild more of what you want to hear. With three, the bridge will vibate more and give the guitar a more springy, reverby sound. This is what I call a "nervous" Strat. Some just seem to be a bit jangly and wussy to me, and nine times out of ten I see three springs in them, and the spings are really stretched. If you like a Strat with more "whump" on the bottom and more "crack" on the top - which is what a good, cutting Strat does best, you'll be happier with more springs. The reason is actually quite simple. When you dig into the strings, with wimpy sprngs you put more of your picking energy into moving the bridge and the springs. With solid springs, more of that energy goes into the body of the guitar and strings themselves. We all know that better transfer to the body via the bridge will generally produce a warmer, more organic sound. More into the springs is usually noticed by a quivery, metallic response. Some guitars seem to really be affected, others not. But none seem to be adversely affected by more springs (or higher rate springs) and all will have added tuning stability. So why not go for it?

PWR, as long as the claw is parallel to the sustain block, you should be having no problems provided the springs are matched. One thing you may notice though, is that when you stiffen the bridge, other flaws in the system may pop up. Say you did't pre-stretch enough. When the bridge was giving it may not have showed up that the ball ends or machine wraps were moving, but now that the bridge is solid they may be showing up as tuning problems. But since you only changed the springs, you may be thinking that's the problem.

Lube the nut with graphite (aka use a pencil to and draw on the slot), pre-stretch, and you should be fine if everything is working.

[rcqp]

Thanks so much guys, I'm kinda new and rather shy to bring the guitar back to the shop and ask such a beginners question.

[Offshore Angler]

Yeah, and they'd charge you $40 for a setup, which we can teach you to do for nothing. Welcome to the Fender fold. Which Strat did you get?

Really, don't be afraid to adjust it. There isn't anything you're going to ruin by trying.

And I apologise for getting too technical for a simple answer, but that's because we just like to "get into" Strats here.

Let us know how you make out. There is more than enough expertise available to you here to talk you through starting with a tree and ending up with a Stratocaster!

[fezz parka]

Just ask me about relic-ing... Here's just one of the many relic-ing secrets you can learn here:

[curtisstetka]

Fezz, you spread your peanut butter with a chainsaw, don't you?

[photoweborama]

I'm pretty good about pre-stretching strings and I've been measuring the distance between block to claw with a 1/64" rule to try to get the tension as close to exact as possible, and I use a ton of pencils to lube the nut and bridge saddles. I even use it on guitars that don't have a Trem....

The angled three springs so far has been keeping the tuning really close. Less than a cent off after play and Trem use... I've found that with Strats, there is no exact science. They defy logic at times. I would have thought five springs would be the most stable, but just seem to be out all the time.

Between my son and I, we have four Strats I've been testing these theories out.

I really want to just buy a bunch of Tremsetters and be done with it, but I don't want to plunk down that much money and then the time and effort to install them.

[Offshore Angler]

PWR, all my Strats are Tremsetter equipped. It's worth the hour it takes to install one. I also am non traditional in that I use the Wilkinson bridge. It sounds great and is the most stable out there.

With 1/4 turn machines, an LSR nut, Wilky bridge, and a Tremsetter, I need to tune once a night. And many nights, It comes out of the case perfectly in tune.

[photoweborama]

BLASTED OA!!! Now you've totally convinced my obsessive-compulsive brain that I have to have Tremsetters.... I know, I can sell one of the Strats to get the tremsetters..... No.. wait.... Hum...

[Offshore Angler]

Before you run out and sell off gear, a few words about Tremsetters.

I set mine as tight as they'll go. In effect, I'm blocking the bridge but allowing it to move if I need it. The down side is when set really tight, there is a pronounced detent in the middle of the bridge travel. It takes some getting used to if you use the bar. I haven't put the bar in the bridge at a gig in some time, so it doesn't affect me. If I want to do dive bombs I use the pedal. It sounds better and is lots more fun to use, with a two octave bend. Plus, if I switch to a Tele or LP I don't loose the effect. In reality, I hardly ever use the pedal anyway. It's not even on my board at this time.

The nice thing is, I can stiffen the bridge to darned near being totally blocked, but still get the sustain from the springs and I still sound like a Strat. And, I can still use my palm for vibrato.

Tremsetters rule. Nice thing is, if you still want to use a lot of whammy, you can set it loose and use it like a stiff spring.

Personally, I'd find an older Strat Plus, swap the electronics and have it all in a package. The Strat Plus with the early style roller nut and Tremsetter is the sland once you pull out the LS's and the TBX. IMHO, they are the perfect Strat once you do that. Great body contours, and what a perfect neck. And, they're dirt cheap.

[curtisstetka]

I second that, OA. My pal Mark here at work got a super deal on one from ebay a while ago. I worked on it for him. Replaced the electronics, removed the stupid TBX, and it is a fantastic guitar.

[photoweborama]

I had one in here for a photo shoot, I really liked it and the neck was one of the best.

Ok, here is the scoop; I only use the trem for vibrato. I don't dive with it. And I like the feel of 5 springs. I like it to be stiff. I just feel more secure that way.
I don't mind the detent either... I can live with that over the tuning instability...

I just have to get a few to put in.. I know StewMac had them for $35.00. But as you know from the other threads. I'm tight on money, and that’s why TFF'ers are donating parts to me to build a Tele. So, The Tremsetters will have to wait...

[curtisstetka]

ebay, my friend. So many cheap-o things on ebay...

http://search.ebay.com/tremsetter_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

Although, if they are only $35 at Stew Mac, those ebay prices aren't any better.

[photoweborama]

For some reason I never thought of that...