Some Fender models made in Japan have MIJ. Some CIJ.
Is this supposed to be like Fender versus Squire - a matter of grade?
Some Fender models made in Japan have MIJ. Some CIJ.
Is this supposed to be like Fender versus Squire - a matter of grade?
All the CIJ guitars I've seen had nitro finishes. There's a cool one out here in a shop right now w/an ambered Seafoam Green paint job; but the contours were kind of nasty compared w/the MIJ models. Like they didn't sand them very well after they came off the CNC machine. The MIJ models were really smooth looking.
Actually, you can't get them from the factory (AFAIK), you CAN get them from several music retailers within Japan, like Ishibashi.
Also, IME, the guitars are Poly finished. I got mine in '99 and '00 and they are top of hte line, and are both poly. Can't speak for Craft-Shop or special issues, but the top of the production line guitars are poly.
It may have changed or it may have been that way earlier, I can't speak to that.
One more thing: the sanding and finish on mine (when new) was flawless, on both guitars. Of course I've done a decent job of playing them into as much relic shape as you can make a poly coated guitar, but at least the poly on my guitars is thin.
I think the craft shop is for limited production runs of special order or special edition models. . Ishi buys all their lefties special order ( smallest lot is 12) and those come from the craft shop.
I believe the designation of "Made in Japan" ended in 1997 and it's all been "Crafted" after that. Just a guess though....
I guess I should clarify my previous statement; the sanding & finish were done well, but many of the angles & edges on the CIJ models I've seen seemed sharp & had a "machined" look as opposed to the smooth edges & graceful contours of a hand-sanded piece. No doubt they're well made & put their MIA counteparts to shame.Originally Posted by pbradt
71818--ah! Genuine relic'ing versus artificial relic'ing...?!?!
Nah, not relic'ing, just faux handmade guitars as opposed to genuine CNC manufacturing.
I have 2 MIJ Teles, and like pbradt said, the finish is nice and thin.
My 50's Tele has changed my outlook about maple necks.
I really feel like I'm playing a piece of wood. :yay The US 52 RI's I've played are finished really thick, and just didn't like that feel.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
USA Tele '52 RIs? Every one I've ever played had a THICK paint job, weighed a TON, & had a pencil thin neck. Every single one.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the weight.
Maybe there's like three pounds of poly on them.
"Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."
Elvis Costello
I always thought ( and could be wrong) that the MIJ designation stopped when they stopped exporting them to the US. It might be a simple matter of legal descriptions, since the US requires the 'made in' label. Maybe 'crafted in' didn't cut the mustard.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
AFAIK, around 1997 Fender Japan made a marketing decision that "Crafted" sounded better that "Made" and changed all guitars made from then on to the new designation.
Yep, you are pretty much correct there. But I think they still exported some of the CIJs (oh well, they still do export some special models). I wouldn't know the actual reason for the "Crafted" title, but it could be because not all parts are made in Japan, they are sometimes just assembled there. So it's like just in case somebody complains that a guitar isn't enough japanese to have a "Made in" title. Some claim the word "Crafted" just sounds better, and that's why the change... on the other hand it could be to diffrentiate between the off-shore and the local (USA & MEX) models.
Anyway: MIJ means approximately pre-1997 and CIJ after that. There a no differences in quality related to the Crafted vs Made (that I would know of), but the 1980s japanese Fenders do have better class of hardware, and later they've been cutting corners in that.
I have a CIJ 50's Bigsby model. The neck pocket is not quite the 5/8" deep that the other Fenders I have owned is. It is about 1/16" off. But otherwise it seems to be totally interchangeable with the other teles I have (or have had).
Guitars: Teles, Strats, LP, VW Wormoth, others. Amps: Bassman LTD, Richter 5e3, 5e3 Head, Taynor Bassmaster II, Gretsch 6150 (Supro), others. Board: Guitar>Java Boost> Huckleberry>Fuzz Head>Top Fuel> SFX-03 >Keeley 4 knob Comp>EH Clone Chorus>Flanger>DD-6
I forget which year they changed the neck, but I know one guy with a pencil-neck '52RI and I really disliked the guitar. I like a neck with some heft to it. One time at some clinic I went to, Jerry Donahue told me "there's a lot of tone in a bigger neck." He was right. But I believe the later 52RIs have chunkier necks.
I don't understand why they lay that nitro on so thick(and I think the USA 52ri has a nitro finish).
You are correct, sir!
I've only played a couple of those guitars, and found the finish to be a deal killer when considering a purchase. The neck felt very sticky, like some folks describe. But I don't think it's a product of the lacquer, all my Gibsons feel just fine. Not sure what the problem is, other than that issue I'd have bought one. Of course, the MIJ 50's is close enough that I'm more than satisified with it. I may throw some new Pups in it though.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
If you get pickups, get Hamels. Amazing.
Got a link?
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
***DING--DING--DING*** ...and the winner is Dangerine!
*Made in Japan* conjurs up memories of every piece of crap that was made in the 70's/80's like the stoopid oversized comb and clown glasses, and those stoopid water globes that you shake w/ snow in it, along w/ at least 10 million plastic toy pieces of crap.
*Crafted in Japan* however, is waaaaaaaay classier. It implies *craftsmanship* which implies highly skilled *craftsman* lovingly *crafted* this unique instrument for you alone!
And, more accurately, some bean-counter realized that a *Crafted* instrument can demand more $$$$$$$$$.
Any asshole can *make* anything, but only a *craftsman* can *craft* a piece of art!
Dig?!?
ta-may-toe......ta-mah-toe
oh, and to answer your question; MIJ vs CIJ, what's the diff?
A: about $500!
Imanidiot.
Hamel has no web site yet. Let me know if you want them and I'll get you in touch.
Really? No difference? Both CIJs I've played have been vastly (vastly) better than most MIJs I've played, mine included.
The attention to finishing, frets, neck shaping, etc, seemed a lot better on the CIJs...
really???????:ahem
riddle me this, batman;
why do old MIJ's from the 70/80/90's demand so much $$$$$$$$$$$ ?
Imanidiot.
Translation: I have one, ergo it's better.
Tha Harmony Central mentality.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Speaking from my left-handed experience, I avoid the mid-90s MIJ "modern" strats. These are the ones with Gotoh tuners and trussrod adjustment at the headstock. I haven't seen any fret or finish issues on them, but the necks are thinner and I believe they are equivalent to Ishibashi's ST43 and TL43 models - the bare-bones entry level model. When I browse ebay ( almost a necessity for a LH player) I keep and eye out for the tell-tale Kluson tuners to help identify the 54,57 or 62 style Fenders. The neck profiles are better and sometimes the pickups are alnico. Check out the body on my last ebay score:
http://home.comcast.net/~gearho/ash1.jpg
The ebay pics were grainy, but I saw the Klusons and went for it. From what I've seen in lefty-land, all the CIJ Fender strats and teles were "50s reissues". Was that the same for RH guitars? Weren't the MIM standards in full production by that time?
An obvious exception to the Kluson rule would be 72-style teles or strats.
Actually, my experience is the same and I've owned both. The '80s '62RI was nice but the overall fit, finish and so forth on the CIJ I bought in '99 was the best I'd seen outside of Joe Glaser's work.
Won't argue your point, Pete...you're likely right. But let's give Telecast this:
The " I own one, ergo it's better..." theory is hugely prevalent on these type of forums. I think Telecast just nailed a symtom here.
From Don@Bluezy, an importer of MIJ/CIJ Fenders.
Greetings Scott...
The only difference between Made in Japan and Crafted in Japan is the era, as far as craftsmanship, the woods and finish are comparable.
MIJs were made from 1980-1995
Then CIJ were made from 1996-2000s
Even though the woods and craftsmanship are similar, the CIJs started to use USA pickups from Fender USA (made a huge improvement).
There was no significant Custom Shop from Fender Japan, like how Fender USA has... but then again, Fender Japan's stuff is more consistent.
The Inca Sliver Telecaster you have is what's called the "Custom Colors Edition" in which it's painted in limited colors. I don't think they offer anything from Fender Japan at this moment in Inca Silver (which is a classy color...)
To my knowledge there is no MIJs or CIJs that came with Nitrocellulous laquer for their production models. They mostly, if not always used all Poly finishes. The reason is that Poly and Nitro sound the same when new, but Nitro is old, and chips and fades away over time. Becauce the nitro finish chips away soo easy, it's not durable, and wood is exposed, and the wood starts to warp, and gather mold, and wood damage slowly begins (which is why many vintage guitars look very frail and relic). Also Nitro finish is carcenogenic (caused cancer), so Fender Japan did not want to take a chance and have their workers get exposed to those materials.
Poly from Fender Japan is not thick and dull like cheap guitars, rather applied smartly and thin, which gives years and years of protection, while still maintaining a sweet vintage tone. Also Fender Japan uses Poly because the wood will not warp, and the finish will stay put, so you have not only a well built guitar, but a well protected easy to maintain guitar as well.
No nitro on CIJ guitars? I must have been misled!
All the CIJ's Ive seen are polyurethane applied very thin never seen a flaw in the finish. I started seeing the changeover in the decal around 97 then Fender USA stopped importing them and started the MIM Classic series to cover the models they werent getting from japan anymore.
Some of the things the CIJ's have the MIJ's dont USA pickups steel tremelo blocks on the higher priced Strats more colors.
The USA 52ri have poly undercoats and only the top 2-3 clear coats are nitro thats how theuy can say its a "Nitro Finish". The finish on these is about as thick as a dime and they are usually around 8-9 lbs. Some are lighter but they are more rare.
The 52ri I had a 1988 model was 9.1 lbs and sounded crappy and had a thin neck. They all had sorta thin necks from 82-98 then they changed the profile and they are alot better now but still not as chunky as the 50's Classic or Nocaster. The necks on all the MIJ-CIJ's are fantastic.
Personally I'd much rather have a nice MIJ-CIJ 50's Tele or MIM Classic series than a USA 52ri but I do like the Nocaster.
Just remember this boys and girls:
The high quality MIJ/CIJ guitars have the serial number on the back of the neck,
just above the body joint-the only difference I can tell between MIJ/CIJ is one says Made and the other says Crafted. I've owned several over the years and currently own a 92 MIJ 57 RI and a 94 40th Anniversary CIJ (Strats).
I also have one of the cheaper ones, with the serial number and MIJ on the headstock. Of course it doesn't compare favorably to the other two, nor was it meant to.
If you leave the house, you're just asking for it.
There's a CIJ '62 Strat in a shop up here right now with a lot of finish checking like I've never seen on a poly coat. It could be a refin, but it doesn't look like it. It's about $400.
does poly finish check? i woud've figured it to be durable and flexible enough to resist it to some degree. maybe that '62 was put through some extreme conditions.
incidentally, there seems to be very little information floating around on the ExTrad and Custom Mades from Japan, and from what i know, some of them are limited runs and do have full nitro finishes. pretty much what i know i've read up on guitargai's site, but that really doesn't show the big picture.
Except, he didn't, becuase I posted here about how much I loved the MIJ and how worried I was about selling it.
Less arrogance next time, please, Captain Internet.
Both MIJs I had had rather sharp fret ends at various places in the neck and the quality of the laquering on the neck felt inferior to the CIJs I've played. That's been my experience, and I posted it as such.
Both had S/Ns on the back of the neck, too, for what it's worth.
Frinky, I understood completely what you said and he said. Nothing was aimed at you. Not by me, anyway ;) In fact, my response was far more general in scope and had nothing to do with you or what you said. Arrogant, you said? :)
He was talking about me, Captain Internet.
A friend in need is a good reason to screen your calls.
Captain Who?
Captain wha?
"If you're cool, you don't know nothin' about it. It just is...or you ain't." - Keith Richards
Captain Where?
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