Getting that Strat "Quack"

Got a ? regarding that "quack" sound from a Strat when using pickup positions 2 & 4. Is it better to use a RWRP pickup in the middle position or use a standard pickup and just reverse it's wire connections? I've heard that back in the day Fender didn't have RWRP pickups and just switched the wire connection to place the middle pup out of phase with the neck and bridge pups and that this is supposedly the "better" way to wire the pickups to get that "quack" than to use a RWRP pup in the middle. Anyone know for sure one way or the other?

Thanks!

"Back in the day" Leo hated that "quack" and refused to put five-way switches in the guitars even whe players asked for it, so I doubt Fender did anything to accentuate the sound. The "quack" is a function of the pickups' distance from each other and not an "out of phase" sound, so no special wiring is necessary. In my experience, some pickups just quack more than others, but if they are going to do it at all they seem to work best with the pickups set nice and low.

Jim is correct.

The RWRP middle pickup in for noise cancelling, not for "quack". On an old Strat all 3 pickups were roughly the same and all three pickups were wired the same. The "quack" was caused by the positioning of the pickups.

As Jim also said, Leo was not a fan of the sound. It was unintended.

Some players claim that a RWRP middle pickup has a negative affect on the sounds of positions 2 & 4. I can't hear a difference. Lindy Fralin (and I believe Jason Lollari though I may be wrong) claim that it makes no difference.

I remember 25-30 years ago pulling the pickguard off of a Strat to try to figure out how it worked and seeing 3 identical pickups all wire the same. It confused the heck out of me! They had to be wired out of phase, right? Wrong!

In fact, if you wire the middle pickup out of phase it sounds pretty crappy.

It's the most popular misconception about the Strat.

I´m under the impression that if the middle pickup is adjusted a little bit lower than the other 2 the quack get a little more accentuated!
But the actual pups is more important is my experience.
The Texas specials in my Squier silver series are less quacking compared to the originals in my 1979 strat but that may be the guitars as well.

Thanks a lot!

So is one middle pickup preferred over the other. In other words if you were building a Strat would you use a RWRP pup in the middle or a standard pup with it's leads reversed?

Neither one. As Don says, you wire all three pickups exactly the same.

For years I used a set of pickups in my main guitar that sounded great for what I was doing but lacked "quack" no matter how I adjusted them. I recently replaced them with a newly-designed set from the same maker and they quack Very nicely. It's not a function of a "special" middle pickup, but of what frequencies are accentuated by a given set of pickups.

OK, thanks again. I'm doing a bunch of searching and reading and I'm slowly (but surely) learning what I want to know.

That's right. Either use a RWRP middle pickup or not. Wire it just like the others.

Strats until the late '70s(?) did not use a RWRP middle pickup or special wiring (all 3 pickups were the same and were wired the same) and they "quacked if you balanced the 3-way switch in the in between positions.

Some will say that an RWRP middle pu causes less "quack".

Supposedly, as stated in post #4, height adjustment can often increase or decrease quack. I don't know. I've never adjusted pickups for the sake of "quack".

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Originally Posted by Don

Supposedly, as stated in post #4, height adjustment can often increase or decrease quack. I don't know. I've never adjusted pickups for the sake of "quack".

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Typically it's accentuated if you lower the middle pickup. A lot of people don't use the middle pickup by itself, so the individual sound doesn't matter to them.

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Originally Posted by silent j.

"Back in the day" Leo hated that "quack" and refused to put five-way switches in the guitars even whe players asked for it, so I doubt Fender did anything to accentuate the sound. The "quack" is a function of the pickups' distance from each other and not an "out of phase" sound, so no special wiring is necessary. In my experience, some pickups just quack more than others, but if they are going to do it at all they seem to work best with the pickups set nice and low.

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Also,I remember it was an outside parts company (Mighty Mite?) that came out with the first 5 way switches.
FYI,listen to "Nowhere Man" by the Beatles....George and John played the lead simultaneously on matching blue strats,and they had the pickups notched (sounds like mid and bridge).Again,ahead of their time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWEPu0w-7w

Refin - yep, and those Strats are plugged straight into a 1960's recording console! George is playing the Sonic blue guitar that became "Rocky."

Seriously, trem springs can really add to the tone! I've experimented and while it isn't night and day, they can help.

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Originally Posted by chuckocaster

Seriously, trem springs can really add to the tone! I've experimented and while it isn't night and day, they can help.

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I know float vs. non-float makes a big difference (IMHO), but do you think number/brands/individual springs make a noticeable diferene?

Yes, probably bat hearing stuff, but I can hear a difference. It's not something I obsess about, and I don't do it on every strat. BUT, it can help.

For understanding (or getting more confused) about the "Quack" sound this thread is interesting:

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...299#post592299

I think the middle pickup contributes the most to the quack sound. I think maple necks quack more than rosewood boards. I think hardtails quack the most, followed by blocked trems next and floating trems least. Some very definitive quack sounds (in my view) are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CIGlhaqmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqhBofYowKc

I don't think of the "in between" pickup sounds (where two strat pickups are shared) as the quack sound.

I hope my opinions don't start an ugly debate. They are just my opinions and there will be disagreement.

BTW I agree that all the pickups are wired the same. The RWRP is intended to reduce hum and I really don't hear that configuration sounding different in a significant way... other than reducing hum.

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Originally Posted by Kap'n

I know float vs. non-float makes a big difference (IMHO), but do you think number/brands/individual springs make a noticeable diferene?

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I can't tell a difference between 3 or 5 springs in terms of sound but I can tell that the 5 has a bit more tension....like a hardtail strat. But still not as much tension as a Tele. Even a hardtail strat feels like less tension that a Tele to me.

I can tell a difference sonically between a hardtail and a strat with springs. (see above post by me).

Great videos with great Strat tones!

Most consider Strat "quack" to be the combined sounds though I have heard Strats that had some "quack" like sounds with a single pickup selected.

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Originally Posted by buckaroo

For understanding (or getting more confused) about the "Quack" sound this thread is interesting:

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/...299#post592299

I think the middle pickup contributes the most to the quack sound. I think maple necks quack more than rosewood boards. I think hardtails quack the most, followed by blocked trems next and floating trems least. Some very definitive quack sounds (in my view) are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8CIGlhaqmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqhBofYowKc

I don't think of the "in between" pickup sounds (where two strat pickups are shared) as the quack sound.

I hope my opinions don't start an ugly debate. They are just my opinions and there will be disagreement.

BTW I agree that all the pickups are wired the same. The RWRP is intended to reduce hum and I really don't hear that configuration sounding different in a significant way... other than reducing hum.

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It is hard to qualify terns that have been created unofficially. My use of certain terms may be different than someone else's. As I grew up, in the midwest, playing guitars and especially strats, the terms that I always heard referenced and thus adopted were:

"in between sounds" for the combined pickup positions
"quack" for the sound of the middle pickup by itself.

The video links above are the middle pickup by itself.

I do realize others may have learned different meanings for those terms so I do not mean to say my meaning is right and other's are wrong. I just want to clarify what "I" mean when I use those terms.

When I was a kid, a "thong" was what is known now as a "flip flop". Now a thong is a bikini underwear!

All very interesting whatever terms we use.......

Duuuude... I don't know where you heard that "quack" described the sound of the middle pickup alone... that has been the standard name for the "in-between" sounds since I picked up a Strat in the late '60s. In the midwest, I should add. :)

Although I now prefer to call it "the lisp," the term early Strat player Johnny Cucci coined for the sound. As I'm sure you all know, Cucci and others asked Leo to put a five-way switch in the Strat to make getting those tones easier, but Leo wouldn't budge from his hard-ass position that the Strat pickups were perfectly placed and voiced and should only be used one at a time.

Well I am an old dog no doubt! I would concede that my use of the strat slang term "quack" may be in the minority and not the convention.

I would clarify that my beliefs are:

1. The middle pickup contributes very significantly to the "in between" sound, such that adjustment of it higher or lower makes a noticeable difference to that sound.

2. The RWRP middle pickup reduces hum effectively but does not have any other bearing on the tone...even if used in the "in between" positions.

3. hard tail vs. blocked tail vs. float tail each have a unique effect on the tone of all the strat sounds. I hear that effect the most on the middle pick up alone, but it is evident in all pickup positions.

4. I don't hear differences between the number of springs so much but I do "feel" a different tension on the strings with a different number of strings; regardless of if the trem is floating or blocked.