Fender drri advice please

Hello,I am trying to tame the ice pick a touch and boost the mids/improve tone,and after some research have decided on this-an Amporex 5u4gb rectifier(more sag/compression),Tung sol 6v6 tubes,harma cryo ecc83 in v1(apparently improves tone over stock valve),clip bright cap, swap v2 for v6(earlier breakup for use in the house),a 10 or higher fixed resistor instead of the 6.8k to boost the mids,and Rebias to 33-35 mA. Also,I find the vibrato on its slowest is still too fast and read about using ceramic disc caps swapping .01 for .02! Any opinions much appreciated

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Originally Posted by Sumner93

Hello,I am trying to tame the ice pick a touch and boost the mids/improve tone,and after some research have decided on this-an Amporex 5u4gb rectifier(more sag/compression),Tung sol 6v6 tubes,harma cryo ecc83 in v1(apparently improves tone over stock valve),clip bright cap, swap v2 for v6(earlier breakup for use in the house),a 10 or higher fixed resistor instead of the 6.8k to boost the mids,and Rebias to 33-35 mA. Also,I find the vibrato on its slowest is still too fast and read about using ceramic disc caps swapping .01 for .02! Any opinions much appreciated

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Well, it's a lot easier to
1) Remove c10 (treble bypass)
2) Understand that lowering the bass and treble and raising the volume will boost the mids.

The stock DRRI is just about the most perfect amp Fender ever built tone-wise.
It's 22W so it's not intended to be a home/bedroom amp. A DRRI is a loud little sucker. Instead of all the that farting around and killing a great amp go buy a Tiny Terror or something similar for your home use if you are of the ilk that only a tube amp will produce your "tone". For home and studio I use a Fractal since it sounds perfect at any volume.

Farting around? Would take no more than an hour, and i am aware that lowering treble/bass and boosting volume increases mids,but i want more haha! The other points i considered are just valve upgrades[everyone does this eventually] and addressing the ridiculously fast vibrato! I also have 2 other lower powered amps[british flavour]but favour the 22w for rehearsals and when the mrs and kids are out

Id start with the Tung Sols and rebiasing. I would prefer to keep the tube compliment as close to the original as possible.

The problem with clipping the bright cap is that it really changes the whole feel of the vibrato channel.

Also rather than mess with the circuit to get more mids I'd get a new speaker. There are several people making speakers that are like broken-in vintage 30s and those are awesome in Deluxe Reverbs.

I have to agree with your assessment also having played originals I honestly think Fender could do a better job getting them to sound like that as the originals dont have those problems, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well, it's a lot easier to
1) Remove c10 (treble bypass)
2) Understand that lowering the bass and treble and raising the volume will boost the mids.

The stock DRRI is just about the most perfect amp Fender ever built tone-wise.
It's 22W so it's not intended to be a home/bedroom amp. A DRRI is a loud little sucker. Instead of all the that farting around and killing a great amp go buy a Tiny Terror or something similar for your home use if you are of the ilk that only a tube amp will produce your "tone". For home and studio I use a Fractal since it sounds perfect at any volume.

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-__^

I'll put either of my 100 watters up against your Tiny Terror for playing at any volume.

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Originally Posted by Sumner93

Farting around? Would take no more than an hour, and i am aware that lowering treble/bass and boosting volume increases mids,but i want more haha! The other points i considered are just valve upgrades[everyone does this eventually] and addressing the ridiculously fast vibrato! I also have 2 other lower powered amps[british flavour]but favour the 22w for rehearsals and when the mrs and kids are out

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No, they don't always replace the bottles. Properly biased they will last for decades and sound great. Mine are still the originals and have been gigged relentlessly and dragged through several states.

Redisburing's comment on the speaker is spot on. The DRRI has a good design, it has solid iron and relatively low gain so the breakup is in the speaker. Messing with the tubes might make you think you're really doing something but if you crave an early breakup ( and I really don't know why you want to neuter an amp so you can only play it in your house ) try a Cannibis Rex or maybe a Swamp Thing.


Regarding the tremolo, I'm again not sure what it is you're seeking to do. The tremolo on a DR or DRRI is spot on. If you need something slower I'd go for a flanger or maybe a chorus turned way back.

And finally, the DRRI is plenty powerful enough to play a halftime show at the Super Bowl if you know how to use it, so the rehearsals comment is confusing.

What I keep reading is someone who appears to be trying to make a DRRI into something it's not.

Every bit I read tells me you really want a Princeton Reverb. It will be the Fender sound with more mids and an earlier breakup. And a crap load easier to haul to rehearsals.

Or maybe it's just time to grab the Les Paul :).

Chuck

Don't wanna "neuter" it mate,just want an earlier breakup,it's not confined to the house(although we are not at the gig stage yet)and you can't be saying GT's are the best ever? So an upgrade is one of the first things I do to an amp,any amp! As for the vibrato,what's confusing about finding the slowest setting still too fast? A slow throb would be way more desirable,as for the fastest setting-unusable. Not sure why you find it confusing that I prefer this amp over my other two amps for rehearsals either?

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Originally Posted by Sumner93

Don't wanna "neuter" it mate,just want an earlier breakup,it's not confined to the house(although we are not at the gig stage yet)and you can't be saying GT's are the best ever? So an upgrade is one of the first things I do to an amp,any amp! As for the vibrato,what's confusing about finding the slowest setting still too fast? A slow throb would be way more desirable,as for the fastest setting-unusable. Not sure why you find it confusing that I prefer this amp over my other two amps for rehearsals either?

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Respectfully, if you're not at the gig stage yet, you might find that if you have strong mids and it breaks up earlier for low volumes it will become flabby and farty when you take it out and open the throttle. You can't have it all. That's what I mean by neutering it. What makes the DRRI legendary is that it sounds great and it has an amazing amount of cut. That's what you want onstage. It allows you to be heard without using an overbearing volume. A DRRI on 4 is louder than many 100W amps.

You might try a 2 X 8 closed-back cab for it for practice if you need that much punch and grind - disconnect the internal speaker. Make sure you match the impedance.

But any open-back single twelve is probably going to be at pretty high volume before it breaks, doped or not.

GT's are fine tubes, regardless of what the "experts" on the internet say. Mine sound spectacular after many years of service. We're a working party band so I have to cover anything from Elvis to Greenday to Van Halen to Molly Hatchet at a show and my signal chain is still pretty simple: Tuner, compressor, OD, RAT, Delay, Stereo chorus into a DRRI. Done everything from local bars to county fairs to huge biker rallies with it. If I need more than that I bring the rack gear with the Fractal.

So anyway, you asked for an opinion and I gave you mine.

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Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Respectfully, if you're not at the gig stage yet, you might find that if you have strong mids and it breaks up earlier for low volumes it will become flabby and farty when you take it out and open the throttle. You can't have it all. That's what I mean by neutering it. What makes the DRRI legendary is that it sounds great and it has an amazing amount of cut. That's what you want onstage. It allows you to be heard without using an overbearing volume. A DRRI on 4 is louder than many 100W amps.

You might try a 2 X 8 closed-back cab for it for practice if you need that much punch and grind - disconnect the internal speaker. Make sure you match the impedance.

But any open-back single twelve is probably going to be at pretty high volume before it breaks, doped or not.

GT's are fine tubes, regardless of what the "experts" on the internet say. Mine sound spectacular after many years of service. We're a working party band so I have to cover anything from Elvis to Greenday to Van Halen to Molly Hatchet at a show and my signal chain is still pretty simple: Tuner, compressor, OD, RAT, Delay, Stereo chorus into a DRRI. Done everything from local bars to county fairs to huge biker rallies with it. If I need more than that I bring the rack gear with the Fractal.

So anyway, you asked for an opinion and I gave you mine.

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the Reissue isn't legendary. the original is; the reissue is a very workman amp.

more mids arent going to cause it to flub out either, given the cabinet design. more bass would, granted, but the OT on a DRRI can easily handle more mids.

also right now you're being one of those "internet 'experts'" you are so willing to dismiss offhand. you use GT and you have a setup that works for you. please do not mistake that for having all of the answers. in fact, rather than actually answer the OP's questions, mostly you've given him the wall of text version of "deal with it".

OP still get proper tubes, bias them properly and investigate a new speaker. after that I highly suggest you get one of these so you can slam the front of the amp and get a bit of extra gain without making your volume skyrocket (note:pretty much any clone of a Klon Centaur is fine):
http://www.rimrockeffects.com/upload...32649_orig.jpg

Cheers mate,well put,will check out those pedals too

Here's my suggestions, take it for what it's worth, and I'm not going to "qualify" my opinions:

If you want MORE mids and earlier breakup, I'd look into getting a decent overdrive pedal. Tubescreamer, SD1, a KLONE. I've owned all of them, even got on the waiting list for a REAL Klon. Played it for a month and flipped it for twice the price. Yes, it was a good OD, but I personally didn't think it was a "magic" pedal. Right now I use a ZenDrive clone and a Marshall Bluesbreaker clone, both I built myself.

I wouldn't waste my money on "cryo" tubes. Instead, spend your money on some decent tubes, they don't even have to be NOS. I've had plenty of luck with JJ's, and all types of them. The new Mullard and Tung Sols have been good to me too.

Try rebiasing the amp.

Get a different more mid forward speaker like the previously mentioned Vintage 30.

I don't know anything about the bright cap mod, or how to slow down a vibrato. But I'm sure someone has mods for those. Maybe you can put the bright cap on a push/pull pot? Then you're not drilling holes for a switch, and going back to the "stock" sound is super easy.

As for what order I'd do these in? Tubes, speaker, OD, circuit mods.

As for the whole argument over how loud is "loud enough"? I ain't fucking even getting into that one! Y'all have fun with that! It depends on you, your band, and your expectations and experience. There is no one right answer.

As far as tone though? I think the DRRi sounds fine stock. I think it can sound better with a little work and some money.

Best of luck to you man! Hope you get her dialed in for what you want.

As you mentioned, to slow the tremolo, change one of the .01uF caps in the tremolo circuit to .02uF (or add a second .01uF cap in parallel to the existing .01uF cap). I think C21 is the cap to change though I'm not 100% sure.

yeah - i don't know.....
sounds like the wrong amp for what you want -
ymmv, just my thoughts.

Erm,no,it's the right amp,just knew I could get more out of it,the internets full of people tweaking/upgrading their amps,all I did was start a new thread tailored for me. So this it what I've settled on, after opening it up I found the stock valves to be sovteks[ branded GT]v1 to v6, v7/8 EHX 6v6s,and a ruby gz34 in v9, gonna swap these to v1/v4-harma retro ax7s[mullard clones] v2 a brimar ecc82,v3 mullard ecc82[both of which I already have]v5 the stockGT, and try a GT 12ax7 in v6, 7,8,9,left as is[for now],get it rebiased a bit hotter and give the speaker time to break in[amps had about 20 hours use since new due to using other amps]and jumper the two channels,have already experimented with linking ch1/ch2 and got some almost perfect results.

So, I've cogitated on this thread for a while. I think I see the disconnect. Others with experience may wish to chime in.

What I realized the other night doing a sound check is that many players don't use sound reinforcement, and until you do the way you want your amp to sound will be different that someone who does.

My DRRI sounds much bigger, fatter and overall better as it comes through the monitors and the mains. This is generally true of most amps. The amp isn't the end of the signal chain so what happens after it is having a large effect on how it sounds. I generally mic with an SM57 slightly off-center. That adds some color, mids and compression. Then the board EQ affects it even more and may add some dwell. Finally, the power amps and speakers do some stuff too.

Generally I find that the full-spectrum warm breakup sound can be more a product of the sound system than the amp. If you're trying to achieve this at bedroom or practice levels by modifying the amp you will likely be disappointed when you go live and mic things up. I want the solid top-end and just enough bottom to not come out "boomy" through the mains - which will add all the big bottom you could ever want to your sound. The mids will come.

That creamy, fat on-the-edge-of-feedback sustaining overdrive sound is really a product of the whole sound system doing it's magic. It's a lot more than the amp. It's why you'll hear guitar players talking about "How the room sounds great".

Last but not least, all of our tonal destiny is in the hands of the sound person. Good ones know the difference between requirements as the room fills. The empty room sound of the amp through the system at sound check will vary from the same amp once the room is full.

So, if you want to tweak your amp to sound awesome in the basement go ahead, but realize that all those mids and early breakup can equal "mud" though the mix. That's the risk you take.


All IMHO and YMMV,

Chuck

I get all that chuck - we do both - it depends on the room - some we dial back without SR, some we set amps to stun - some we go under that and mic in - depends on a lot of things.

My mind set is that if you have to do seriously heavy mods to an amp to get what you want out of it - it isn't the amp it was....therefore not the amp you need.
seem reasonable?

I LOVE my DRRI, I never modded it, may dot he cap at some point - but probably not. it sounds fine as is.

new valves/rebias is hardly seriously heavy
mods! also i am a long way off gigging,we mainly do atmospheric instrumental film score type stuff and would much rather record and jam than play gigs. cheers

I stand corrected then - I thought I had read something about changing circuit up, parts, etc. May have just glanced over it too quick - really thought that was what I took away from my read.

I have no problem apologizing if I was off - never anything meant by it -

>:^{I)>

No need Frank,its cool

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Originally Posted by FrankJohnson

I LOVE my DRRI, I never modded it, may dot he cap at some point - but probably not. it sounds fine as is.

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It took about 4 or 5 years before the ice picks disappeared with mine, and now, it sounds full and warm.

I still think if the OP is dead-set on using a DRRI and wants the thickness he should use a closed-back 2x8 cab instead of the single 12. That should accomplish everything he needs: dull the highs, thicken up the mids and breakup at a lower volume. And that way, when the time comes to play out he'll still have a viable amp.